The Strategy Behind an Unforgettable Presence with Lorraine K. Lee
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In this insightful and energizing episode of Branding Room Only, Paula Edgar sits down with Lorraine K. Lee — keynote speaker, LinkedIn Top Voice, founder of RISE Learning Solutions, and author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career. Lorraine shares her career journey from journalism to tech to entrepreneurship, and offers tactical strategies on building presence both virtually and in-person.
From leveraging LinkedIn, to navigating visibility as an introvert, to redefining personal branding as “career branding,” this episode is packed with actionable advice. Lorraine also shares her EPIC Career Brand Framework and discusses how to build a career presence that truly resonates—no matter your role, personality, or work environment.
Whether you're a rising professional, a seasoned executive, or someone rethinking your visibility strategy, this episode will help you elevate your brand and stand out in a meaningful way.
Chapters
1:05 – How Lorraine defines personal branding, how she defines herself in three words, a favorite quote with sage career advice, and her hype music
4:42 – Lorraine’s background, education, and professional journey with top tech industries
8:54 – The power of your professional presence in the digital age
12:09 – How Lorraine laid out her expertise in her book, Unforgettable Presence
14:23 – How to take ownership of your professional journey
17:34 – The value of mentors and sponsors for your career advancement (and the difference between the two roles)
19:44 – The significance of a strong virtual presence and tips for effective video communication
22:45 – Conversation threading for intentionally building rapport during in-person conversations
26:45 – How to overcome proximity bias with opportunity utilization as a leader or an employee
30:58 – Introduction to Lorraine’s EPIC framework for authentically building your career brand
33:50 – The power of LinkedIn as a tool for showcasing your brand and elevating your presence
37:44 - The mindset shift you need to go from being a doer to being strategic in your career advancement
41:32 – What you can learn in Lorraine’s LinkedIn Learning courses
43:03 – The increasing importance of career branding and a shift that can help increase your comfort level in posting on LinkedIn
45:01 – Three things Lorraine does for fun, her uncompromisable superpower, and the unique experience she brings to people in a room
Connect With Lorraine K. Lee
Lorraine Lee is a speaker, author, and founder of RISE Learning Solutions. Her career took off unexpectedly in 2021 when she embraced public speaking. Speaking wherever she could, she turned it into a side hustle that, combined with her personal brand and over a decade of experience as a founding editor at numerous tech firms like LinkedIn and Prezi, gave her the confidence to start her own business when she was laid off in 2022.
Lorraine learned that advancing in your career requires promoting your work, gaining buy-in, and building senior relationships. Now, she helps organizations and teams supercharge their professional presence as a full-time keynote speaker, trainer, consultant, content creator, and instructor with LinkedIn Learning and Stanford Continuing Studies.
Lorraine Lee | LinkedIn | | Instagram | YouTube
RISE Learning Solutions on LinkedIn
Mentioned In The Strategy Behind an Unforgettable Presence with Lorraine K. Lee
Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career by Lorraine K. Lee
LinkedIn Learning Courses With Lorraine Lee
Career Bites (Lorraine’s Weekly Newsletter)
Curated Resources from Paula
2025 Intention and Goal Setting Webinar
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Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.
PGE Consulting Group LLC empowers individuals and organizations to lead with purpose, presence, and impact. Specializing in leadership development and personal branding, we offer keynotes, custom programming, consulting, and strategic advising—all designed to elevate influence and performance at every level.
Founded and led by Paula Edgar, our work centers on practical strategies that enhance professional development, strengthen workplace culture, and drive meaningful, measurable change.
To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Paula Edgar: Welcome to The Branding Room Only Podcast where we share career stories, strategies, and lessons learned on how industry leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. Now, let's get started with the show.
Hi, everyone! It's Paula Edgar, your host of Branding Room Only. I'm very excited about my conversation today. Let me tell you a little bit about my guest.
Lorraine K. Lee is a keynote speaker, founder of RISE Learning Solutions, and best-selling author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career. She is also an instructor with LinkedIn Learning and Stanford. She is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice with hundreds of thousands of followers and has a decade of experience leading editorial teams at top tech firms. Her insights have appeared in outlets such as CNBC, Bloomberg, and Fast Company, and I am so excited for our conversation.
Lorraine, welcome to The Branding Room Only.
Lorraine Lee: Thank you for having me, Paula. I am so excited to be here with you today.
Paula Edgar: Of course, of course. So let's jump in. What does personal brand mean to you? How would you define it?
Lorraine Lee: I would define personal brand as essentially your reputation and what you want to be known for. Even further than personal brand, I think a lot of people hear that phrase most often, there are sometimes negative connotations with that word. So I actually started calling it your career brand.
I think it still gets the point across. It’s still the same goal, the same definition. But I think when you say career brand, sometimes people register, “Okay, this does apply to me. It’s something I still need to think about, be aware of, and be intentional about because it helps me with my career or professional endeavors, whatever that may be.”
I know sometimes when people hear personal brand, they’re like, “Oh, I have to be marketing myself all the time, or I have to be really loud, or I have to have a product.” But that’s not the case at all.
Paula Edgar: I love that, and I love the differentiation. Like I tell everybody, “I don’t care what you call it, just do it. Please just do it.” So, how would you describe yourself in three words or short phrases?
Lorraine Lee: I would say reliable, caring, and ambitious.
Paula Edgar: My favorite A-word for every person, but definitely for women. I love, love, love ambition as a word, probably because it’s one of mine as well. So, love that. Love that. Do you have a favorite quote or motto?
Lorraine Lee: There are so many quotes and mottos that have helped shape the direction I take or the actions I take. One that has come up a lot over the years is: Over-prepare, but don’t over-plan.
I really like this phrase as it pertains to our careers, especially because—I don’t know about you, Paula—but when I started my career, I was very much on a linear path, like, “I’m going to move up the corporate ladder, I want to be a CMO, or I want to be in the C-suite, up there.” But life happens. Opportunities come your way. There are things you are not expecting.
So, to over-prepare in a sense of make sure you have the right skills, that you’re networking and building relationships, and that you’re advocating for yourself at all points, but don’t over-plan because that can stop you from being open to really exciting opportunities that will come your way, that is something that I feel like I’ve really taken to heart throughout my career, and being open has led to a lot of things I wouldn’t have expected for myself including what I do now.
Paula Edgar: That is sage advice. I don’t think I know anybody who’s like, “This is what I’m going to do,” and then actually did that. Not in a one line, at least. So, I appreciate that context and I think it will resonate for a lot of people. When people are about to get the full Lorraine K., what’s playing in your head? What’s your hype song? Or if you're having a bad day, what song brings you back up?
Lorraine Lee: Oh gosh, I’m pretty basic with my music. I really like Top 40 pop songs. If it’s before a keynote presentation or something like that, I’ll listen to some EDM, like pump-up music. Sometimes it’s Eye of the Tiger, which I know is kind of cliche. But I mean, it’s an energizing song.
Paula Edgar: It is. You’re probably the fourth or fifth person who has picked that song. It is a pump-up, come on. It’s all good.
Lorraine Lee: Yeah, so I think that song. But usually, it’s a playlist, a mix of different songs with different energies, depending on what I need at that time, yeah.
Paula Edgar: That makes sense. So tell me, where did you grow up, and how do you believe that shaped you?
Lorraine Lee: I grew up in Los Angeles for all of my life and then moved to Chicago for university. I loved growing up in L.A. I grew up in a very supportive household. My parents supported me wanting to do journalism, not the most lucrative or perhaps stable industry.
I didn’t end up doing journalism, but just having their support, having that nurture, really, really allowed me to thrive and sort of figure out my path. So yeah, it was a wonderful upbringing. I feel like there are a lot of diverse communities in L.A. as well, so I got exposure to that.
Now I live in San Francisco, which I feel like is close enough to home but also gives me that diversity, meeting interesting people and being able to do interesting things in the city.
Paula Edgar: Yeah, I love California. Having lived there before, I used to live in Orange County, I would say, it was not very diverse. But I loved it, and I got to meet a lot of people I wouldn’t have met just being on the East Coast. So I totally get that.
So, talk to me about your professional journey. You grew up, you went to school, but tell me what you did after that.
Lorraine Lee: Yeah, so I mentioned I studied journalism. I went to Northwestern to study journalism for undergrad. It was while I was at Northwestern that I knew, “Okay, I know journalism, these skills I’m learning are really important.” Sort of like that over-prepare, but don’t over-plan—preparing with the skill set.
But I knew pretty early on that I didn’t want to do traditional journalism, so I wanted to do something journalism-adjacent. At the time that I entered the workforce, tech was becoming a big thing. You saw all these articles coming out about how lucrative Silicon Valley was and all the opportunity that was there.
I decided to take a chance and move here. I initially wanted to move back to L.A., but I figured, “Okay, this is close enough. Let me see what this is about.” So I started my career at a startup founded by one of the first ten employees at Google. I was in a marketing and PR function, which was a really great experience, very much a startup, mostly engineers. I was the second marketing hire.
Then I moved over to SlideShare, which was a LinkedIn company at the time. I was a founding editor at SlideShare and then eventually became a founding editor at LinkedIn proper. My total time at LinkedIn spanned about six years, and it was at LinkedIn where I worked on some really exciting products, some that you or your listeners might recognize.
That daily news module you see in the right-hand corner of your LinkedIn feed, I actually moved to Hong Kong for a year to help launch that from an editorial perspective. I was writing the news during my day so that everyone in the U.S. would have fresh news when they woke up in the morning.
I also worked on LinkedIn newsletters, the original LinkedIn Influencer program, and a lot of other things. It was a really wonderful experience. LinkedIn had always been my dream company. But after six years—especially in tech—I feel like, “Okay, it’s time to try something new and take on a new challenge.”
So I ended up at a company called Prezi, which is a presentation platform. I was the first editorial hire there, so I got to build the team from the ground up. At LinkedIn, I thought about personal branding, about Prezi, even more so, becoming a public speaker, being more active on LinkedIn, not just on behalf of my company but for myself.
That was really transformative for my growth and confidence. All the little things that started from there led me to where I am now, which is keynote speaking, teaching, as you mentioned in my intro, and also, the author of an upcoming book.
Paula Edgar: Speaking of branding, comma, comma, comma. Yes. I love it. I love that. Who knew that you have been the wind beneath my wings for everything I didn’t know? Because I’ve used all of those LinkedIn features. I love Prezi.
Lorraine Lee: Amazing, amazing.
Paula Edgar: Thank you for your service. My listeners will tell you that I am the unpaid brand spokesperson for LinkedIn at all times. I’m like, “You need to be on it. It has to happen.”
Lorraine Lee: You and me both, yeah.
Paula Edgar: Yes. No, it’s powerful. So, let’s talk about your newest role as an author. Your book, Unforgettable Presence, is about standing out and gaining influence. I love this. What inspired you to write it? And why do you think it’s important to be intentional about your professional presence, especially today?
Lorraine Lee: Of course. The idea of the book came to me because a friend, after seeing me launch my first LinkedIn Learning course, kind of made a tongue-in-cheek joke, like, "Oh, when's the book coming out?" And that really planted the idea in my head, like, "Oh, I hadn't thought about that, but maybe."
It was still pretty early when I started my business, or maybe I hadn't even started it yet. Maybe it was a few months. But yeah, I think having friends, mentors, people like that who can almost introduce ideas to you that you didn't even think about for yourself is very powerful. So that sort of planted the seed.
Then, in a bit of a strange turn of events, within the span of a few months, a bunch of publishers reached out to me. I had initially, when I first started my business, decided to try to write a book outline. I was like, "Okay, I'm just starting my business, things are slow, I'm going to just take the time to write a book."
I realized very quickly how hard it is. I was also so early in my business, I was like, "I don't know what this book is going to be about." But by the time the publishers had reached out, I had more so cemented my expertise around this idea of professional presence and had wanted to work with a publisher. I'm like, "This is the universe telling me it is time." So I took that leap.
Then really, the idea around professional presence and what I talk about on LinkedIn is that presence is not just about executive presence and how you show up in a room, but it's about both how and where you are seen. And the where is often forgotten about but super important, especially in this digital age where so many of us are virtual or at the very least hybrid.
So I wanted to also take my LinkedIn expertise, there's a chapter on LinkedIn. You know, Paula, LinkedIn presence is so important, and people would come to me and say, "Oh, your LinkedIn presence is strong." And I'm like, "Oh, that's so interesting. You've never met me before, but you have an impression of my presence, right?"
And then video presence and virtual presence became super important, how you show up on camera, and your virtual presence in chat channels and emails. So all these places where people don't necessarily think of when they think of presence. But all these points are so important, while small on their own sometimes, really add up to create that overall presence, that overall reputation, and they create a really consistent experience for anyone who is interacting with you in those different areas.
Paula Edgar: I'm loving everything that you're saying because I do think it's powerful. One of the things that you just said, people often don't think about, and they need to.
So you talked about chat presence. And sometimes—I'm a lawyer—I have a lot of group-type chats and GroupMe's and all this and that. And I'm like, "Oh, did you know that we can all see that?" So it is an important piece.
And really thinking about every single place where you are present and adding value, there's an opportunity for people to take and learn and think, “Well,” or take and learn and understand that they maybe don't want to connect with you as much because of what they're seeing. I think that that is powerful.
So you mentioned that the process, as you were thinking about it, is a hard one. As somebody who is writing a book right now, I get it. I get it.
Tell me, when you think about how you put the book together—and everybody's going to get it because that's what they should do—what did you think about? Are you including quotes? Are you including experiences? How was it laid out? How do you lay out your expertise in the book?
Lorraine Lee: Sure. I had to think about all the areas that I'm very passionate about speaking on, which is a lot. I know people are like, "Niche down," but I'm like, "But there are so many things I want to talk about!"
So I figured out, "Okay, what are the key categories I like to talk about?" Meetings, virtual presence, LinkedIn, managing, all these different aspects that are important in our career. Communication, presenting, public speaking.
Then I had to figure out, "Okay, how do I want to organize these into chapters? What makes sense?" So I start off with building your foundation, and then it's like, "How do you take your career to the next level? How do you work with your manager to really advocate for yourself and build your presence? And once you are in that leadership position, how do you then expand the presence of your team?"
So it sort of had a natural flow that made sense, like the lifecycle of a career, I guess you could kind of say. And yeah, so that's how I thought about it.
Then I also knew that it was really important to me to not just have my own stories and my own expertise, but also interview a bunch of other experts in this space. So I was so honored, and it was so fun to interview nearly three dozen experts.
These are C-suite at Fortune 500 companies, bestselling authors, some content creators, a comedian, a poet. So a lot of diversity in terms of types of people whose jobs require presence. But equally, they all have something valuable to share as it pertains to our corporate environments.
So I was able to also incorporate more than 140 of their insights. I knew that's something I wanted to do, and I'm really excited I was able to do that.
Paula Edgar: Oh, that's fantastic. I mean, I always say that as an expert, it's great to be able to tell folks, "Here is the best practice." But bringing in other people's stories and amplifying those things makes the learning a little bit more solid, I think, for folks because they can hear themselves in somebody else, et cetera. That's awesome. That's awesome.
So when you are thinking about presence, I often—people often tell me, "I feel like I'm not seen, that at work, I'm invisible or maybe not as seen." Oftentimes, those places are at intersections of different places of our identity as well.
So when you think about folks who may be struggling and feeling invisible at work, what are some of the mistakes that you have seen in terms of that, not showing up to be present? And what's some advice that you might want to give folks to be more present?
Lorraine Lee: Something I'm really proud of in this book is that I do include advice and stories for underrepresented groups. Like, I am an Asian-American woman and an introvert, so I talk about all of those experiences at different points in the book.
I think growing up the way I did—again, I had super supportive, loving parents—but the culture is very much like a heads-down culture, humility. I still remember when I joined LinkedIn, I was so scared. I don't know why I was so scared, but I was scared. I was young, the youngest person, I think, on the team. Everyone seemed so experienced. I just felt so deferential and just like, "Oh my gosh, how did I get here?"
And I think something I've really learned over the years—and something that I talk about in the book that's really important—is to change your mindset to become the CEO of your own career.
So you need to think of yourself as a business. You can have the most supportive manager in the world—and I've had some amazing, actually all my managers have pretty much been amazing—but everyone is also really busy, and they have their own goals and their own challenges that they're dealing with.
So for you to really take ownership and not think, "Okay, I'm going to get promoted because I've been here for five years," or, "My manager is going to definitely vouch for me because I mentioned once that I want to get promoted or I want that raise," but to really take ownership and think, "Okay, my career is not 100% in my control, but I can control a good amount of what the outcomes are," and make sure that I'm persistent, and make sure that people know me and see me, and really to share my work.
I talk a lot about that analogy, Paula, you may have heard of it: "If a tree falls in the forest, but no one's there to hear it, did it happen?" And similar to our hard work, if we're working really hard but no one sees it and no one knows about it, what's it all for?
So the combination of really being proactive and intentional, taking your career into your own hands, thinking of yourself as the CEO of your own career, and then also making sure that you are visible and advocating for yourself, showing your work, sharing learnings and wins, I think those two are very powerful criteria to ensure that that happens.
Paula Edgar: I love that you mentioned this because I talk a lot about self-promotion and how it's important to do it strategically and thoughtfully. But I often get what you just said, but for folks like, "Well, I wasn’t raised this way culturally," and at the intersection, underrepresented plus gender plus insert anything else here, you also mentioned introvert. So there's a lot of different layers that come with that.
So I love the, "Hey, we need to do it." What are some of the ways that you help people override some of that inner voice that we've been growing? And I say we because I had it too. We've grown up saying, "Oh, you shouldn’t do that. That’s not what we should be doing."
Lorraine Lee: I think having a mentor or a sponsor is a very powerful way to get that career support and to just have someone to bounce ideas off of, who can tell you, "Oh, this is the way it’s done," or, "This is the person you need to talk to," or, "This is the way that you do it."
A lot of us, I guess there’s a nuance between mentors and sponsors that I also want to share. Mentors coach you. They share about their experience. And then there are sponsors, people who advocate for you and really open doors for you.
So you’ll need both at different points in your career. Perhaps when you’re starting off, maybe mentors are needed to help guide. But then, when you get to a certain level, to really break through that ceiling and to be seen at that next level, sponsors are going to be needed.
So I think finding that support system, finding that network, can be really valuable. Then that really boils down to, "Okay, how do we find them?" You have to build relationships at work, and you have to take the time, put in the time. It’s not, again, just about the hard work, but, “Who’s around me? Who can I talk to?” Just get to know your coworkers as people. That goes a really long way.
Paula Edgar: Yeah, I love that you brought up mentors and sponsors as support structures in figuring out ways in which to find your voice and to amplify it. But one thing I love even more about that is that it’s not just the how, but it’s the strategy around it. Like, a sponsor is going to tell you—because I often say: "Mentors will talk to you. Sponsors will talk about you." Because sponsors are aligning their brands with you, they’re invested.
So they’re going to tell you the things that will make both you and them look good as you go forward, but with that context. Because usually, sponsors are people who have already built that, so that’s why they have the power to be able to do that. So, oh, I love that you brought it up.
Okay, so thinking about the work that you’ve done, taking it from tech and the different places that you mentioned, what do you think it takes to get seen and recognized in today’s workplace? And I want to give a little nuance on today. Today meaning post-COVID today. I think today is very different than before. With all of the technology that we have, how are you seen in person and in a Zoom?
Lorraine Lee: I think that video communication is still really, really important. You would—or maybe you wouldn’t—be surprised. I don’t know what your experience has been, but so many people still get on video calls, and they have not set up their space and been intentional with it.
I’m like, "Oh my gosh," yeah, you get it, your space, you have the colors and the plants, that’s really nice. But people will just show up, and they don’t have the right framing, and they’re in a dark room, it just doesn’t look professional. So sometimes, I know people are like, "That’s old news." But it’s like, “No, it’s not” With all the trainings and the sessions I give, I still see people who just are not intentional about it.
So I think showing up well on video, having a strong virtual presence, is a really big differentiator, even in today’s day and age, a few years post-COVID. Video is still going to be a really important way that we communicate with each other and talk with each other.
So to have a strong virtual presence and know how to connect with people over video and build relationships, to know how to present impactfully in a virtual setup so that people actually pay attention and they’re not multitasking and getting distracted, that is such a huge way to really be seen.
Because not everyone is doing it, in person, it’s much easier for us to build those relationships and that rapport, and to present and get people’s attention, but if you can do it virtually, where so much communication and interaction is happening, I think that’s a surefire way to stand out.
Paula Edgar: I agree with you. I think, number one, you hit one of my biggest pet peeves, which is when people are not thinking about how they've received virtually. I'm a lawyer, I work with a lot of lawyers. Some of the things that people complain about at the leadership in a lot of law firms is, o, they don't put their cameras on, or they look like they've just been kidnapped because it's dark and then shadow and then my light's coming from different ways and they're pets and everything and the bed is not made.
Like the people are really not thinking about the experience and how it was received. In person, I do think it's easier. When somebody shows up and they're like, “Okay, I've gotten dressed up, I've made the effort to come into the office now,” et cetera, or whatever it is, but we feel a little bit more relaxed. Because usually we're home or someplace we're more comfortable.
But I think that what you said is so key. It's just as much of a strategy virtually as it is when you're in person. But let's talk about in person, though. So yeah, I'm just going to show up. Now what? Right? I'm there. I made it to the office grudgingly. I don't want to come to the office, that's the other piece of why I want to double down on the post-COVID thing, because a lot of people had the opportunity of flexibility, and learn that they didn't have to, I don't know, put on pants. They could just be here this way.
But then going back, I do think the world has shifted a little bit. So what are some of the opportunities of being present and having presence in person?
Lorraine Lee: I think when you are in person, the typical things that you would have thought about before are important, but I would maybe think about a few things with a little bit more intentionality. So your clothing and literally what you're wearing. Your office might be really casual, but if you are only in the office once a quarter, once a month, you want to show up as your best self and maybe you put away the workout leggings that you might normally have worn and show up, again, something that feels authentic to you and that fits within your office culture, but I think showing up and dressing up a little bit nicer is never a bad thing.
Better to be overdressed than underdressed. So I think showing up well in a comfortable but sharp outfit I think is always a great thing. There's another thing that I think is really key. It works for virtual but also I think is even more important in person because so many of us have maybe not exercised the small talk muscle as much, or at least we're not as used to it in person. I still feel people will come up to me and be, "Oh, I still forgot how to talk to people," even after all these years.
So the reason, one of the main reasons people go into an office is to bond and to connect socially. So to move away from autopilot conversations like, "Oh, how are you?" "Oh, I'm good, how are you?” “Good, okay thanks, see ya,” “Bye, see you.” “How was your weekend?” "Oh, it's good, how's yours?" "Good."
So if you can move away from autopilot conversations, use this concept that I call conversational threading, where you are leaving breadcrumbs, so to speak. So you asked me how my weekend was and I say, "Oh, Paula, it was great, I went hiking, I went to my niece's birthday party and oh my gosh, I just finished binging this show."
Now you, Paula, can be like, "Oh, okay, I now learned three facts about Lorraine, I can now pull on one of those threads." Let's actually create a back-and-forth conversation that builds our relationship and builds our rapport, rather than having it be a throwaway moment. So I think leaning into the relationship-building piece, especially in person, is very valuable.
Paula Edgar: That's such a smart thing, because number one, I do agree 100% with that, when you call small talk [inaudible], people need to work out their small talk a lot. Even the folks who have to interact with folks a lot, I do just think it's a lost art. That people, because we're on our gadgets so much, we're relying on text, nobody wants to be on the phone. Me included, I do not like the phone, don't call me, text me, then I will tell you when I'm ready. Then we can talk.
But your point about leaving those breadcrumbs is so great, because what I do think that the world lost in COVID is that interaction that we were having just in people, and seeing, "Oh, you changed your hair," or whatever the thing is. So we have to be, to your point, more intentional about it.
I do think it brings you closer. So that's that presence piece where they're, "I have something to follow up on," like, "Oh, I watched the show. Let me tell you about this. The show that's the one that you talked about." That is such great advice, such great advice. I mean, I have a daughter. She's a sophomore in college.
Lorraine Lee: Okay, exciting.
Paula Edgar: She does not want to talk to anyone. They refuse to be on the phone with anybody. So learning some of these pieces on how to interact, because again, until we're taken over by the robots, we're still people. We still want to be seen. I think that that is fantastic.
So let me double-click on another part of this question. We talked about the virtual, we talked about in person, but in terms of thinking about the virtual aspect or the hybrid aspect of this and me being noticed for opportunities, one of the things you're losing is you're not going to bump into [insert person's name] in the coffee place and be like, "Oh, I noticed that I tripped on this assignment that I want. Can I have this assignment?"
How can you utilize opportunities to have more presence with folks virtually? Because it doesn't necessarily just happen since you have to log on. What are some of those thoughts?
Lorraine Lee: If you're a leader, I think you need to be really careful about proximity bias, which I think is what you're touching on, where the people in person, you're like, "Oh, I have a project," and the people in person are going to be the fastest and they're going to be top of mind because you see them there. So if you're a leader, be intentional about, okay, if you have an opportunity, don't throw it out to whoever's in the room, but instead, "Okay, we have a team meeting, I will be taking email responses by this date," to make sure that it's equitable and to be thoughtful about that.
Because yeah, remote attendees, it is harder sometimes. So, as a leader, that's what I would say from that perspective. If you are the worker and you're remote and you're having trouble breaking through and getting there, a few things come to mind. The first is finding an in-person buddy, someone who is a friend who can kind of keep an eye out for you. If you're trying to say something on a call and you're having trouble, they can say, “Oh, Paula has something to share, Slacked me, so give the floor to you.” So that's something that you can do I think that's very helpful.
Then Slack. I know sometimes people think virtual is the less ideal option, but even something like, I feel for introverts, a platform like Slack or Teams, you are able to share more than you might normally when you're in person. In a virtual space, you need to repeat things multiple times for people to catch it.
For example, in my old company, there was a functional marketing team channel and then a wider one where the CEO and other C-suite leaders were. If I was in the office, I wouldn't be knocking around the doors to all the C-suite being, "Hey, did you see this?" But now in a chat channel, I have the chance to reach a wider audience and to Slack the entire company, even, and let them know that there was something I published or something my team did that was a win.
So I think to not think of virtual as the worst option, but figure out how to leverage those channels and opportunities well. And especially as an introvert, being able to write my thoughts out and write what I want to say first is actually very powerful and I think more impactful for me than speaking up on the fly in a meeting. So yeah, I think it's a little bit of a mindset shift as well when it comes to talking about yourself and your work.
Paula Edgar: Absolutely. Because as soon as you just said a Slack channel with a CEO, I was like—because the same way that it is an opportunity, it's also a responsibility. How do you show up and think about that? There are so many little nuanced places where people will opine about you without you even knowing. So using those opportunities in good ways.
But I love thinking about the strategy piece of it because oftentimes we don't think about the strategy. It's just, we're kind of going forward and hoping for the better. But being strategic around it—even showing up early—one of the things that I like to tell people to do is be right on time, because most times people are going to be late.
Like when it comes to a virtual meeting, be, "Hey, Jim, what's going on?" And you see this little bowl or whatever the thing you're going to ask about. It gives you a little bit of time. And also, don't be the first person to log off. Wait, see, you never know.
Don't be creepy, like somebody's trying to talk one-on-one, don't do that. But give it a moment. Similar to in person, showing up early for an event or staying later to talk to a speaker, you can also leverage those things virtually too. So there's no "no," it's only the "how you're going to make it happen."
Lorraine Lee: I love that.
Paula Edgar: Okay. So, authenticity is something that everybody talks about in anything that we're doing now, especially in the workplace. So when you're thinking about self-promotion and showing up and being present, that can be a lot.
What are some things that people can take and be actionable about without feeling inauthentic? Because some of this can feel kind of contrived. To your point about how personal branding as a topic and a phrase makes people go, "Oh, I don't know," but you mentioned calling it career branding, how do you make people feel like this is their thing and be authentic in that piece? What are some of your thoughts there?
Lorraine Lee: I created this framework called the EPIC Career Brand Framework. I think that's a really wonderful place to start because, to your point, yeah, it's going to feel inauthentic if you're trying to come up with some huge vision or mission statement for yourself that's coming out of the blue.
EPIC tries to ground it a little bit more, and we all are able to answer the four parts of EPIC. So to build your brand, touch on your experiences. We all have experiences in life, whether professional or personal. Personality, we all have certain aspects to our personality. You asked me earlier, "What are the three words that describe you?" So we all have specific ways that we want to be known or how we see ourselves.
Identity, this can be a cultural thing. It can be your values, how you operate, and how you work with other people. Then the "C" is your Community. Your brand can be a certain way to you and look a certain way to you, but if your community does not see you that way, then it's not working. So you need to make sure that your community is aligned and sees you how you want to be seen.
I think starting off with these four steps is really critical because you're pulling from your personality, from your experiences, and you're not just trying to become something that you're not. Then once you have that, you can come up with a mission statement or your elevator pitch, your introduction, your UPI as I call it your Unique and Powerful Introduction, in a way that's authentic to you and still makes you stand out.
Paula Edgar: I mean, I didn't even know about the EPIC Framework, and I'm like, "That is perfect." Number one, people love frameworks. Number two, it's so actionable. But my favorite part about it is that community piece. Because that's where you know that it's authentic. If it's not resonating, then you're going to have to reassess. I love, love, love that. I'm going to give you an asterisk and be like, "Do you know about this?"
Lorraine Lee: Please share it formula.
Paula Edgar: I think it is really, really powerful, and it will resonate for folks because it's less like "just do this" and more about thinking about the pieces that need to go into it for it to show up properly.
Lorraine Lee: A lot of self-reflection, which is great. And it's some work, but it will pay off in the long term.
Paula Edgar: Yeah. Okay, so this is the time I've been waiting for. Lorraine, talk about LinkedIn.
Lorraine Lee: Oh, do we have another hour?
Paula Edgar: I know. It's my favorite platform, and I always say it's the best marketing branding tool that we have at our fingertips. Also, I know a lot of people are still intimidated by it. So for folks who are listening, they already know that I'm a LinkedIn lover, but you have a different perspective because you were inside.
So talk about why you think the platform is so powerful and what are some of the things that people can do to elevate their presence on LinkedIn?
Lorraine Lee: As you mentioned, LinkedIn is such a powerful tool. When I first started working there, content was just starting to become a thing. They had made some acquisitions, they were building out the editorial team. It is so rewarding and just exciting to see what has transpired over the—gosh, I left at the end of 2019—so many years since I've been there.
I think it's so powerful in building your presence. If you are a CEO and you're super impressive in person, and someone wants to connect with you, but they go to your LinkedIn and there's no profile photo, and you barely have your experience filled out, people are going to make an impression of you. Then they'll think, "These two things are not aligned. Is this person actually that impressive? Why is this not matching?"
I call LinkedIn—what do I say? I say it's your ultimate virtual office, your virtual water cooler, and your virtual landing page. So all of these three things, it's so powerful. You want to make sure that you are in the virtual office, that you are being seen.
It doesn't have to be you being solopreneur or being off on your own to take value from LinkedIn. There is so much value in showing up, and it can really benefit your brand within an organization.
Just from my own personal experience, when I started doing more public speaking and posting about it on LinkedIn and just posting generally, I feel like coworkers saw me as more of a leader. It elevated my visibility at work, and opportunities came to me.
People would see me posting, and I remember my coworker, I think he was out sick or something, and there was a media roundtable. They were like, "Lorraine, can you step in?" I was like, “Ah, okay.” I was active and okay being out there, posting my thoughts, public speaking, and all that. So whether you are on your own or working at a company, there's just so much value that exists there.
Like I said before, people form such a strong impression of me. "Lorraine, you have such a great LinkedIn presence." They haven't met me. They don't need to have met me to have a really positive impression, and that's amazing.
Paula Edgar: It truly is. It's magical even. And one of the things that I feel like people need to be reminded of over and over is when you Google yourself.
Lorraine Lee: Yes.
Paula Edgar: Oftentimes, your LinkedIn is the first thing that comes up, even if you have your own website or your profile at your organization. So if you're not taking care of it, it does look like you abandoned your home. Or you don’t care.
Your house is dirty or empty, and people make perceptions about this. I know it from the recruiting standpoint, I know it from the brand standpoint. So it is so, so, so important to nurture it. I don't think you have to be an influencer, but you need to pay attention to it because people are going to be looking for it. I think now it's more of a brand detriment if you don't have a LinkedIn versus just being—
Lorraine Lee: Yeah, people think it's sketchy if you don't have one.
Paula Edgar: Yeah, right. "Why? Who's watching you?" So, so, so, so true. True, true, true. Okay, so I want to talk about mindset because you started to bring that into this piece. I do think that in order for folks to understand that they have to leverage presence as an opportunity for presence, it is kind of a mindset shift for a lot of people and maybe a little bit sometimes uncomfortable.
What are some ways for people to start thinking of themselves as that? What did you call it? The business, the CEO of them? Is it self-assessment, self-awareness? What are some of the things they should do to start having that switch? Because I do think most people are like, "I'm just going to live a life and hope for the best."
Lorraine Lee: Yeah, I think it's really important to remember that for most of our lives until we enter the working world—like we go through our schooling years—there's a clear path. Again, talking about the clear straight line: study hard, get your grades, you move to the next level, do the same thing, and you keep climbing up like that.
Really, it doesn't set us up well for the corporate world because the corporate world is more of the Wild West, especially in this day and age. The security is just not there like it used to be. People are not at companies for 20-plus years. It's very different now.
So to understand that contrast between what we're used to and what needs to happen, I think is critical. Then knowing that when you can shift your mindset and really become the CEO of your own career, that is truly how you catapult your career, how you accelerate your career.
You get rewarded when you are more junior by doing the hard work, by executing on things. But over time, if you want to advance, your mindset needs to keep switching along the way. So first, I mean, always be the CEO of your own career, work hard, etc. Then eventually, like my book is really targeting that mid-level, who, again, work really hard, do great work, get great results.
But now there's a new barrier and expectation for what's needed to be seen as a senior leader. So that's another mindset shift in terms of, “Okay, what I got rewarded for previously is not going to get me to that next level.” So then that's also mindset in terms of understanding, "Okay, I need to be performing at the next level. I need to be more strategic versus being a doer."
I think even just understanding that once can go a long way because no one really tells you—unless maybe your manager is helping you or you're asking people—but it's not something that's so obviously shared. Again, no clear, straight, and easy path to get there.
Paula Edgar: I love the reflection that for our whole lives, our hands have been held. Especially, again, I have a 20-year-old, it's like, "Now go fly," without understanding how things work, how to be visible, how to take that temperature and move to the next thing, and decide strategically.
So everything you just said, I think it makes a whole lot of sense. I'm really reflecting on intention. Every year in January, I do, for free, for anybody on the internet, an intention and goal-setting session because I realized a long time ago that there's power in saying, "This is what I want to do in this area, in that area."
I lead folks through that process to help them think about it. It's not just career-based, it's in general: "What do I want to do? Family, my house, etc." It is magical when people are like, "Remember two years ago when I said I was going to have a baby? Here it is." Or whatever the thing is. But to set the intention, and not just, I say this quote from my mother all the time. My mother used to say, "You can be the wind, or you can be the leaf." And if you are the wind, you are deciding. You are setting that intention. The leaf might still get there, but it's kind of everywhere.
I knew the conversation was going to be fascinating. But I want to talk a little bit more about LinkedIn. Tell me, what do you teach in your LinkedIn Learning courses? What did you teach? What do people learn from you, other than following you and connecting with you, obviously, which they’re going to do. When you did LinkedIn Learning, what did you teach about?
Lorraine Lee: Oh gosh, so many things. So I have 18 courses out right now. My 19th one is coming out later this year. Not sure when yet, but I just actually submitted it the other day.
Paula Edgar: Love it.
Lorraine Lee: So yeah, some of the most popular topics, let's see. How to Speak So Others Will Listen, How to Communicate with Executives. I have a Virtual Presenting and Public Speaking class.
It's a bunch of career, leadership, and management topics that are really beneficial, whether you're doing something on your own or in a corporate setting. It's meant to help you thrive.
And again, I like talking about so many different things, and I'm lucky enough to have had unique experiences that allow me to talk about a bunch of different things. But it really boils down to communication, leadership, personal development, and career growth are the umbrella topics.
Paula Edgar: Okay, everybody's going to go find them. We're going to make sure that we have links to those.
Lorraine Lee: Yeah, most of them are free. All but one are free. The other one needs a LinkedIn Premium account. So they're nano courses, most of them, 10 minutes or less, quick watch.
Paula Edgar: Nice, even better. Okay, so we've talked about a lot because I was so excited. Again, there are several people who are like, "All right, most of the time people come to me like, 'Can I be on your podcast?'" I was like, "I need you to be on my podcast, Lorraine."
So let me ask you this, from our conversation, we've talked about internal and external presence. We've talked about platforms and pretty much the gamut. What is something that you want the listeners of my podcast to take away from our conversation and about presence and building it in their workspaces?
Lorraine Lee: Oh gosh, there are so many things. I think I'll tie the takeaway to career brand and a little bit of LinkedIn. Really, career brand is so critical. I feel like more and more now, people are realizing how important it is, especially if you are trying to reach that next level. How am I currently being seen? And what do I actually want to be seen as?
Again, self-reflection and talking to peers, making sure it's aligned with how you want to be seen. A career brand is critical no matter what career stage you're at. I know sometimes people think, "Oh, presence or a personal brand, that's for executives." But really, those executives got there because they laid the groundwork and did all that. So that's the first thing I would say, just really lean into your career brand. I have a whole chapter about that in my book.
Then, also connected to that, LinkedIn is a very powerful platform, one of the most powerful mediums to display or share your career brand. You mentioned something before, Paula—you touched on it—like, "Oh, people think they have to be an influencer to be on LinkedIn." That’s not the case at all.
Most people, I think, would not consider themselves to be influencers. If you are creating content, that doesn’t mean you need to be labeled a content creator, I think reframing it more as, "I'm using my experiences and my stories to help other people," can be a helpful mindset shift to perhaps making someone more comfortable sharing on LinkedIn. And just to normalize it, it is kind of scary posting on LinkedIn. When I was at LinkedIn, I was always so nervous to post. But it does get easier the more you do it.
Paula Edgar: Love that. I love those takeaways. So, I ask everybody that comes on my podcast the following three questions: one is what about the fun stuff? What do you do for fun?
Lorraine Lee: Okay, I love going out to eat.
Paula Edgar: Yes.
Lorraine Lee: I've been to a lot of good restaurants. I started learning golf recently with my husband. So we'll see how long I can keep that up. I'm enjoying it, but I know it's a very hard sport, and it's hard to get regular practice, so we’ll see.
So yeah, I would say those are the two things I like to do for fun right now, obviously, hanging out with friends.
Paula Edgar: I love those. I love that you started with food because every time somebody tells me that they live in or have visited San Francisco, I'm like, "You have to go to my favorite restaurant because it is my favorite restaurant." It is Crustacean.
Lorraine Lee: I don’t think I've—where is that?
Paula Edgar: Oh, I'm going to tell you right now because this is an important piece. On Polk—what's Polk? I don’t know, I'm not good with areas. Just know, if you like seafood—
Lorraine Lee: I do.
Paula Edgar: You need to go to Crustacean. So much so that when I have speaking engagements in Napa, etc., I stay for an extra day just to go to this restaurant.
Lorraine Lee: All right, I’m adding that to my list, 100%.
Paula Edgar: So yeah, they're known for their Dungeness crab and their garlic noodles. It is awesome. So yes, and then you have to tell me when you go. Because I feel bad when I can’t eat it myself, so I want other people to share with me what they’re eating. So anyway, that’s that. I’m like an influencer for them. "You know what? You should go eat at Crustacean."
Lorraine Lee: Yeah, you're like the brand evangelist.
Paula Edgar: Exactly. So, the second thing I ask everybody is this: What is an authentic aspect of your personal brand that you will never compromise on?
Lorraine Lee: It's really important to me to follow through and be a reliable business partner. I always assumed people were like this, and I'm sure you've experienced it, Paula, like running your own business, like, “Oh my gosh, how many people don’t respond or don’t follow up on things when they say they’re going to?”
It's crazy to me. So yeah, I would call that a superpower and also something that is very important to me. When people mention my name in rooms I’m not in, "Oh, Lorraine’s really great to work with. She really cares, and she’s going to do what she says she’s going to do."
Paula Edgar: Yeah, I think that's an important one. It’s probably the first time I've heard it articulated in that way for this question. I'm glad that you put it that way because being who you say you are and aligning that with your values, that is brand. That is the expectation of you that I want to be able to live with. So, love that.
Okay, so my final question. Branding Room Only is a play on the term standing room only because I am clever. So, my question to you is this: What’s your magic that people would be in a room with just standing room only available to experience about you?
Lorraine Lee: Oh my gosh, like a topic?
Paula Edgar: However you want to answer the question.
Lorraine Lee: I feel like people like hearing my story about how I got into public speaking. Where I started off just being so nervous, so scared, not really having aspirations to do what I’m doing now at all, actually.
I still remember my first podcast I was on, I was just like, "Give me the questions, let me write all my notes." I was so nervous and freaking out. So I think people enjoy seeing that transformation, from that point to where I’m at now. Of course, I still get nervous, and things come up, and all that, but I think it serves as, hopefully, a source of motivation and inspiration that you don’t have to be born a certain way or be born really extroverted.
Again, I’m introverted. I was very nervous. I still get nervous. But just knowing that you can push through and do those things, even scared, I hope people would be interested in learning more about that and hearing that story.
Paula Edgar: I love that, and I’m really glad. I ask this question, and I get such fascinating answers from these questions. I love you sharing that because I do think there is a misconception that in order to keynote or present, you have to be an extrovert. I happen to be an Extrovert with a capital E, but I also very much honor the experiences, perspectives, and actions of introverts.
I'm actually envious in a lot of ways because I do think introverts are more strategic. Because you don’t necessarily want to do it, or it might be draining, it’s like, "Okay, this is what I’m going to do, how I’m going to do it, and I’m going to get it done." Then that’s it.
Versus me, I think of myself like a bee. I’m like, "Oh, next flower, next flower, next flower. I’m going to go do these things." I’m glad that you shared that because I do want to elevate that because introverts, I think, win the world, we just don’t see them the same way. So, to your point about having a book about presence, I think this was a perfect full-circle moment.
How can people find out more about you and your book, and anything else you want to share?
Lorraine Lee: Of course. Definitely follow me, connect with me on LinkedIn. I would love to hear your thoughts on this podcast and, of course, on the book if you end up buying it. But Lorraine K. Lee, you can find me on LinkedIn.
For my book, Unforgettable Presence, unforgettablepresencebook.com will be where you can pre-order, submit your pre-order receipt, get some fun bonuses, and also just learn more about the book and myself.
Then lastly, I have a free newsletter called Career Bites, those are bite-sized tips to supercharge your career in three minutes or less. That’s at lorraineklee.com/subscribe. And my LinkedIn Learning courses as well, you can find on LinkedIn. Lots of resources out there!
But hopefully, everyone’s going to buy the book, and I’m super excited to share the stories and expertise with the world, and hopefully help everyone create their own unforgettable presence.
Paula Edgar: Oh, I love that. Yes, we will all buy the book, and we will all tell our friends to buy the book.
Everybody, tell your friends about this conversation. I get excited when people are talking my talk, and this felt like being in the church choir and singing with somebody who’s on the same key.
Lorraine, I appreciate you coming in. You're welcome to come back to Branding Room Only anytime you’d like to talk about whatever you’d love. And I can’t wait to see just how much this book changes the world. Bye, y’all.
Lorraine Lee: Bye.
