Leadership and the Power of the Pivot with Michele Meyer-Shipp

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Description

Reevaluating where you are and where you want to go is essential to long-term success. But without intentional self-reflection and strategic action, you risk missing out on the growth and opportunities that can shape your career.

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp, CEO of Dress for Success Worldwide, has built an impressive career spanning employment law, human resources, and DEI leadership roles across industries. In addition to her executive leadership experience, Michele serves on the boards of the Ladies Professional Golf Association (LPGA) and the Fritz Pollard Alliance Foundation, further extending her leadership impact.

Through every career transition, one thing has remained constant: her commitment to listening, learning, and making bold yet strategic career moves. Her ability to assess where she can have the most impact has empowered her to embrace pivots and step into leadership roles that align with her values and expertise.

In this episode of Branding Room Only, Michele shares how self-reflection, mentorship, and integrity have played a pivotal role in her career evolution. She also discusses her leadership philosophy, the importance of networking with authenticity, and the broader impact of her work at Dress for Success.

Chapters

1:13 – Michele’s definition of a personal brand, her three-word self-description, her favorite Maya Angelou quote, and the story behind her hype song
5:49 – How Michele’s upbringing shaped her people-first approach and deep commitment to community
8:05 – Michele’s unique career path, from private investigator to CEO
16:49 – Why Michele prioritizes a 100–120-day listening period when stepping into a new leadership role
21:00 – How Michele blends operational excellence with a mission-driven leadership approach
23:24 – The biggest surprise of leading a global nonprofit organization
28:08 – Why serving on the boards of the LPGA and Fritz Pollard Alliance Foundation is so meaningful to Michele
33:28 – Leadership lessons on excellence, mindfulness, self-advocacy, and recognizing career growth opportunities
41:58 – The power of mentorship and why diversity in career guidance matters
44:41 – What Michele does for fun, her non-negotiable brand value, and the core elements of her leadership philosophy

Connect With Michele C. Meyer-Shipp

Michele C. Meyer-Shipp is the Chief Executive Officer of the global non-profit organization Dress for Success Worldwide. She’s a thought leader, sought-after speaker, and talent in the DEI space who has won several awards and garnered many features in news and other media. Prior to her current role, she worked in employment law for 12 years, spent over a decade working in the C-suite in human resource and DEI leadership roles. She was also the head of people and culture at Major League Baseball and currently serves on the board of the Ladies Professional Golf Association and the Fritz Pollard Alliance Foundation. 

Since becoming CEO in early 2022, Michele has led her organization's 140+ affiliates in more than 20 countries in its mission to help women achieve economic independence. They offer a suite of services such as job readiness support, professional development resources, coaching and mentorship, and workplace attire. 

Dress for Success Worldwide | LinkedIn 

Mentioned In Leadership and the Power of the Pivot with Michele Meyer-Shipp

Ladies Professional Golf Association (LPGA)

Fritz Pollard Alliance Foundation

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Sponsor for this episode

This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.

PGE Consulting Group LLC is dedicated to providing a practical hybrid of professional development training and diversity solutions. From speaking to consulting to programming and more, all services and resources are carefully tailored for each partner. Paula Edgar’s distinct expertise helps engage attendees and create lasting change for her clients.

To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Paula Edgar: Welcome to The Branding Room Only Podcast where we share career stories, strategies, and lessons learned on how industry leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. Now, let's get started with the show. Hi, everyone, it's Paula Edgar, your host of Branding Room Only. I'm very, very excited about my conversation today with my guest, Michele Meyer-Shipp. She is the chief executive officer of Dress for Success Worldwide, a global nonprofit. Michele has spent over a decade working in the C-suite in human resource and DEI leadership roles, and she also spent 12 years prior to the same employment law. Prior to her role at Dress for Success, she was the head of people and culture at Major League Baseball, and Michelle is on the board of the LPGA and the chair of the board for the Fritz Pollard Alliance, both sports organizations. As you can tell, she is a thought leader and talent in DEI space, and she's won several awards and been featured in many, many news and media platforms. In her free time—whenever that is—she enjoys spending time with her family, her husband, and her three young adult sons. Michele, welcome to the Branding Room. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Thank you, Paula. I'm really happy to be here. Happy New Year to you. Paula Edgar: Yay, happy New Year to you. Tell me, I start off my conversation with everybody about what is a personal brand, what does a personal brand mean to you? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Yeah. I think about this a lot and I constantly have this discussion with my three young adult sons and it is really arout the way you want people to see you and be received by people. I think about it as in, for me, personal brand is both professional and personal. It really is folks looking at me and sizing me up from within the first 30 seconds that they meet me; how I present myself to the world visually, verbally, all the things. In that way, I think about it with everything that I do. Paula Edgar: That's a textbook. I love it. That's a perfect, perfect definition of it. Speaking of how you're perceiving, tell me in three words or phrases, how would you describe yourself? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I thought about this one a lot because I was trying to think of three words that I think everybody in my house would agree with. Here's where I landed: Driven, because no matter what I decide I'm going to do, whether it's personally or professionally, I am committed and driven to making it happen. I am an empath of epic proportions, sometimes to my detriment. I care deeply about human beings, and I've never met a stranger. I think three is people-oriented. I love people. I love meeting people, talking to people, and helping people. I'm curious about people. I'm curious about cultures. I would say those three words, driven, empath, and people-oriented. Paula Edgar: I love that. I'm going to take my host privilege and add one because I know you and I would say excellent. Whenever I think of you, I think of excellence and how you show up and what you do and what you say is excellent. I'm adding that one to it. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Thank you. Paula Edgar: You're welcome. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I'm going to receive it and own it and I'm going to tell my kids you said it. Paula Edgar: There's a recording. It's going to be fine. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Yeah. Excellent. Paula Edgar: Do you have a favorite quote or motto? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I do. It's actually funny because over the years, I've had a bunch and as I've gotten a little bit older and a little bit wiser, I'm going to tell you the one that has risen to the top. Here's how it reads: it says, "Success is liking yourself, liking what you do, and liking how you do it.” That's a quote from Maya Angelou. That speaks powerfully to me. Paula Edgar: That's a good one. That does speak really deeply. It's also a good encapsulation of branding, too. Everything is aligning. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: It is because success can be defined in many ways, and it's often defined differently by different people and in different ways. But when I think about it, this keeps me honest with myself, my core, my authentic self in realizing that if I am happy and comfortable with where I am, what I'm doing, and how I'm doing it, that right there in and of itself is success beyond measure. Paula Edgar: That's a fantastic quote. I'm going to definitely take that one. Give me your other ways of being inspired, do you have a hype song? This is a song that when they're going to get full, 100% Michele's walking in the door is playing in your head, or if you're having a bad day, you have to play this to get yourself back and it can be the same song or different songs. What's that? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: This is actually funny. My song is Jump Around by House of Pain. Paula Edgar: I love it. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: There's a story connected to how this became my hype song. In law school, it was a couple of weeks before the bar exam, I went to a party. Now I shouldn't have been at a party, but I was because I was fried from studying. This song came on and I knew the song and I liked the song, but for some reason, I was moved beyond measure to the jump part. I was jumping, jumping, jumping, dancing, dancing, dancing. Girl, I sprained my ankle and I ended up wrapped up with my ankle for several weeks, but the joke in my family every time that song comes on is that's the song that gets her going, and it truly still today is the song that gets me going. So Jump Around, House of Pain, that's it. Paula Edgar: That is hilarious, not the pain part. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: No, not the pain part. Paula Edgar: Jump part. That's a good one. Tell me about little Michele, where did you grow up and how do you think that shaped you? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I grew up, I was born and raised in Brooklyn. When I was probably in high school, we moved to Westbury, Long Island. I think the empath and the people-oriented part of me really come from that experience because I grew up in a close-knit community of family and friends. I have vivid memories of being at my grandma's house on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. It was summertime, the fire hydrant was going, all the kids were playing in the water, folks were hanging out the window waving and saying hi, we were throwing the ball, playing frisbee, all the things. I really have fond memories of that community being there. Every time we made a move, we moved to Long Island when I was in high school, and we moved to New Jersey when I went to college. We always seemed to land with a network and a community of people such that I just really love meeting people, communing with people, sharing with people, and bringing people together. My parents are really warm, open, and welcoming folks. I think that grounded me for my path ahead and the things that make me tick. Paula Edgar: I don't know how I did not know that we have this in common. I did not know you were from Brooklyn. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Yeah. Paula Edgar: I was sitting here like, “What?” I had no idea that you were from Brooklyn. Is your family Caribbean? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: No. Paula Edgar: You were on Flatbush Avenue? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I was on Flatbush Avenue, yes. It's funny because of how you have certain memories that stick with you and things you can't remember. I actually remember vividly being on Flatbush Avenue, moving to Ocean Parkway. I remember every distinct move and I remember moving to Westbury and going, "Why are we moving all the way out here?" Definitely, now we know we've got that in common. Paula Edgar: Yes, we have that. Also, my family moved to Jersey, but they moved when I was in school. But yes, good to know. Going from there, then ending up in Jersey in terms of your path and going to school, tell me then about your career path. Being in Jersey and then going to school, tell me about that. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: It's actually a pretty funny story. I majored in criminal justice in college. I thought I wanted to be an FBI agent. When I graduated from college, I actually took a job as a private investigator with a private investigation company, and I lasted about four months as a private investigator. Here's the problem. It ties right back to the way we started this conversation. I was too friendly, too open, too transparent with folks to do the undercover PI thing. When you work as an undercover PI, they put you in an establishment undercover and you have to tell a fake story about who you are and where you came from. Let's just say that didn't go very well for me. The very people I was supposed to be investigating, I befriended and it became impossible for me to be neutral in all the things. I graciously stepped away from that job. That led me to reassess, “Where do you want to be in this space of law? Clearly, you do not want to be any way, any kind of undercover anything.” I was afraid to be a police officer. I said, “You know what, maybe I'll explore this thing called law school, and see what that's all about.” To make a really long story short, I went to law school, I actually loved law school. I don't know many people who say that, but I absolutely loved it. I left law school and ended up, after a clerkship, joining a firm that allowed me to rotate through different practice areas, which was a beautiful thing. I discovered, no surprise based on this conversation, that my passion was for employment law because it related to people. Paula Edgar: And investigations. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: And investigations. I had the investigation part, to dig into things, and I was trying to help people solve people-related problems. I didn't do well with the other aspects of managing different practices within the law firm. But I practiced employment law for about 12 years, worked at a couple of law firms, and worked at a couple of corporations as an in-house counsel. It was when I was actually at Prudential as an in-house counsel that I started navigating my way into volunteerism around the employee resource groups and the law departments, diversity council, and things like that. I found myself convening people around different events and things of that nature. Before you knew it, I got invited to apply for the job at Prudential as the global chief diversity and inclusion officer. I applied for that job, I took that job and it changed the whole trajectory of my career because I then found myself as a strategic partner to the business in navigating HR talent, engagement, and culture issues. I was no longer doing the legal work per se, but I was doing more of the HR people's work. That led me down a path where I had the privilege of working at a number of conversations, doing HR leadership, talent, culture, and DEI work. I really enjoyed it because again, at the core, I'm a people-oriented person. I really love the work. Ironically, I remember being at KPMG as the Chief Diversity Officer, and I got itchy palms. I was like, “I feel I can do more. I feel I can do something bigger. What is it?” I got a call to go to Major League Baseball to apply for the chief people and culture officer. What that did for me as far as my learning and professional development and growth was it gave me full ownership over HR, DEI, and office operations. It took me out of my traditional talent zone. Now I'm overseeing facilities, office ops, all of HR, all of the systems, operational stuff, policy, everything, and the DEI work. I did it during the pandemic in the aftermath of George Floyd's murder. You can imagine all the things that came with that. It was a really great experience. I loved being there. Then honestly, I think I became one of those folks who became the process of re-evaluation. As we were coming around the other side of the pandemic and people were just awakening to who they were, what they wanted to do, and what they wanted their legacy to be, my youngest son said to me, "Hey, Mom, I'm going to college in September and you and dad are going to be all alone. We're not here anymore. What does your next chapter look like?” [inaudible] It got me thinking, “Wow, you know what? I don't have a house full of young men anymore. Their friends aren't here. I'm not coaching and counseling them anymore. What am I going to do to actually really pour into people and help them live their best lives in a really meaningful way?” I decided to take a sabbatical, if you will, and reassess what I wanted to do to give back. Ironically, and you could say it was serendipity, I got a call about the opportunity to be the CEO of this global nonprofit called Dress for Success Worldwide. I remember thinking, “Oh, I know that place. That's a place where you donate your clothes.” I read the job description and it was very heavily oriented around a people leader who loved engaging and interacting with human beings of all walks of life, who had strategic leadership skills, legal skills, HR skills, business skills, and all the things. I saw it as an opportunity for growth. I was attracted by the people-oriented and mission-driven focus of the work. I also saw in it the opportunity again for me as a person to grow professionally, to take it to the next level. Then I researched the organization and I was actually really surprised to discover, “Oh, wow, this organization really is global, 24 countries. Wow, it really does have a lot of affiliates, over 130.” They actually don't just do clothes. It's a full career development, job readiness, skills, and programming platform that they offer. I decided to apply for the job, went through the process, and got the job. Paula, can you believe that next month it will be three years since I've been in this job? Paula Edgar: I was thinking about this. It's just gone by so quickly. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: So fast. Paula Edgar: But again, it also feels, and even in a hearing you talk about the progress in every role, it feels like the culmination of so many skills that you have in one role where you can do a lot of the places of your zones of genius in one role, which is lovely. A couple of things I want to pull out from what you said that I think speak to me a lot when it comes to branding, which is that you have a growth mindset. Because you call it itchy palms, whatever it is, but it keeps wanting you to do and be and grow more. I love that your son was a catalyst for you really thinking about what the next step was going to be because it brings in the roles you have. They can see from you like, “You need to do something.” That means he knows who you are. You taking that baton and saying, “I'm going to think about this in a little bit different way, ” when you're iterating your brand, it requires feedback. It requires people who know you. It requires you to have an open mind. Then a little bit of that serendipity and the world to say, “Oh, here's this actual role that's going to do all those things.” Because of you being in that role and having all those networks you already have, I, and I'm sure many other people, thought of it differently. It was like, “Oh, this is not just donating dresses. It is a lot more.” You brought the skill set, but also visibility in a whole different way to what the organization can and continues to do. I love that. Tell me what your process is if you have one or what you can reflect on, when you've made each pivot you said sabbatical, so there's a little bit of break in there, but is there anything that you consistently do in order to pivot from thing to thing? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Yes, absolutely. The key is that 100 to 120-day listening journey that you go on. You know this Paula because you've been with me through this ride, but I've gone from industry to industry, sector to sector, all very, very, very different. Knowing that, I always start with, “I'm going to go in and I'm going to do nothing in that first three to four months other than listen and learn.” I'm going to tell you, every time I've done it, it has been magical because you're doing a listening tour, you're meeting and talking to people, what you're really doing is a SWOT analysis. You are really hearing from people what's working at this organization, what's not working, and what amazing success looks to them. What are the threats to the organization? Actually, I'm getting goosebumps when I think about this because every time I've done it, when I sit down at the end and I review my notes, the themes from person to person, the same comments, the same types of feedback keep coming out. What happens is that listening journey turns into the basis for your strategic plan. When you go back to the organization, and in this organization as the CEO, to come out of that listening journey, having spoken to our affiliates, the staff at Worldwide, volunteers, corporate partners, et cetera, I go back to them and say, "Hey, I heard you, I saw you, I get you and based on what you've told me, I'd like to propose the following strategic plan for the next three to five years going forward.” They all look at it and go, “Wow, she heard us and she sees what we suggested reflected here.” They're on board, they're engaged and we're all aligned around the journey forward. It's been powerful. I encourage folks, and as a lawyer, by the way, that initially was a really hard thing for me to do because I was always called into a place when something had to be fixed. Called in to solve a problem. Called in to hear it quickly and say, "Okay, we're going to do this, and we're going to do it now." I learned this when I took that role at Prudential as a CEO, my leader there said to me, “The first thing you need to do, Michele, you need to talk to all the business presidents, you need to understand what's going on in their business, and from there, you figure out what to do.” That's where I first learned this process. It is powerful. That has actually driven me all the way through. So every time I talk to my affiliates, every time I talk to my team, I always link back to the core tenants of our mission and our strategic plan. Everything that we do is aligned with those things. Paula Edgar: I love, love, love that and I'm glad I asked the question because you just pulled out something that's so important. People tend to, particularly when they're coming into a new role, they go into a new role and they are like, "I'm the smartest thing that's ever happened. Here's all the information that I have." It’s like, “Actually.” When I used to coach people, I would tell them when they started a new job, don't refer to the old job. You see people who'll be like, “Well, at my last place, I did this,” and I'm like, “Nobody wants to hear that. You are not there anymore. They want to hear what you're going to do here. They want to hear that you are now on this team and you're playing with this team.” But you listening, huge, and also understanding that stakeholders have to be able to give you their feedback for them to feel fully heard and fairly treated is such an important piece of success anywhere. I love, love, love that as a strategy. I could have just fed you that line, but you had it already. Tell me, how do you think you as the leader at Dress for Success impacts the organization in achieving its mission? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I think about two ways. I think about the impact that I'm able to have at a personal level because I really am wholeheartedly all over this mission. It really is about changing women's lives, helping them transform their lives. I am personally committed to that. When I show up authentically and fully and engage with our women, they feel that. The notes and the letters that I get of gratitude around that have played back to me, “Okay, Michele, they see you, they get you, and they know that you truly wholeheartedly support them at the core.” There's the connection to the mission work and the impact of that work. But then from a business standpoint, I really have brought operational excellence to our mission. I've never worked in a nonprofit before. This was a new adventure for me because most of the people I come into contact with, everybody is connected to the mission and the passion of the work, but they may not have had the operational experience to know how to drive the business operations or how to create and drive a strategy. Obviously, I bring the hard work, but I also am bringing the operational process, excellence, policy procedure to it in a way that we have a roadmap, we have a game plan, we have a North Star if you will so that while we're doing the passion work, we make sure the train stays on the tracks, and everybody is going in the right direction towards the same destination. It's both that hard work, that mind work, and that operational kind of logistical excellence work. Paula Edgar: When I think about the time in which you had your tenure, there's been a lot going on in the world, which makes the work that you do and that mission-oriented stuff and the importance of the organization even more so a priority for our focus and our support. What, if any, were any surprises or any sort of experiences that you had doing this work in these three years that you might want to share? Anything? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: The biggest surprise to me was that the organization itself looks so big from the outside. It felt so big from the outside because of our footprint and all the things. But what I realized is that a medium-sized nonprofit operates with a very, very, very small and lean team. It's almost like the Wizard of Oz and the wizard behind the curtain. You're thinking there's this huge big leader there and he's doing all these amazing things. Then you go behind the curtain and it's this little dude on a microphone trying to project his voice out for the world to hear. I was most surprised that this organization has been able to impact and change so many lives with such lean, lean, lean resources. I mean talent, money, everything. I mean, so lean. I had to figure out that coming from a big corporate where I had access to all the things, I had to figure out, ”Okay, Michele, it's time to get real. You need to roll up your sleeves, you need to get scrappy, you need to get resourceful, and you need to figure out how you're going to make this happen without having the kinds of things you're used to having to make stuff get done.” That has been the biggest surprise, and I remain just inspired, proud, and amazed every day at not only my team at the Worldwide Office but also at the women and men who run our affiliates because our affiliates are seeing women coming in every day in need with all sorts of stories from the most horrific to somebody who may just need something simple, but many of those affiliates are run by one person or two people. They rely on volunteers to show up who often don't show up and things of that nature. That's been the biggest surprise. I have a completely newfound appreciation of the world of nonprofit leadership and mission work because it is not for the faint of heart at all. Paula Edgar: It is definitely not, having been on a lot of boards and still am on a lot of boards and understanding that behind-the-scenes comparison was a really good one where it looks nice and shiny. Then behind you see that there are folks who are doing a lot of different things, some within this space and some not within this space and you're just [inaudible] things together in order for the mission to get met, but it works. I was thinking about this before our interview, why, in my mind, Dress for Success is such a big brand? I have a couple of things that I'm thinking of. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: You tell us. Paula Edgar: One is that it rhymes. That's it. Branding-wise, the tagline, it works out well because it rhymes and we like things that rhyme. That's one. Two, the mission is in the name. It's like what we're doing, but for the most part, what people know about, it's the dress as the first thing, but the success part has multiple factors. When I was thinking about this in relation to branding, I thought to myself, “It is exactly that.” When you describe what your brand is, it's like how people are going to experience you, whether you're saying anything or not first, but then the success piece is that you have the skill set and everything else that backs up what the dress is so that you can have that success. I was like, “I love it.” Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Thank you for that. Paula Edgar: It is definitely that. For the people who are listening or watching who only think of it as the donation piece, I think a part of the power is how you lead the folks who are being helped to that success factor and what that can mean for the world because when you support women, you support the world. I love that it is worldwide because we definitely need more support for women in all spaces, but definitely here. Anyway, that was my commercial for Dress for Success. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: No, thank you. But I really appreciate you thinking that through and seeing that. That tells me a lot because actually, we're going through a brand refresh. So hearing that feedback is really helpful for a bunch of reasons that we'll talk about offline. But thank you for that. Paula Edgar: Absolutely. Yes, see, look how the Lord works. I have opinions on everything. Talk to me, since we're talking about volunteerism and leadership and board stuff, you also are a leader in other organizations in terms of your volunteerism space. We talked about the LPGA and also Fritz Pollard Alliance Foundation. Tell me about both of those and why they're important to you in terms of leadership. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Absolutely. As you stated, I sit on the boards for the Ladies Professional Golf Association, the LPGA, and the Fritz Pollard Alliance. I'll talk about the LPGA first. I was introduced to the game of golf and to the LPGA when I was at KPMG. I remember when I was asked to go play a foursome and pick up a golf club, I was like, “Wait a minute, wait, what? You want me to do what?” I was completely resistant to the idea, but I was forced to do it. When I got out on that golf course with these three women that I didn't know in a foursome, and we spent the whole day together playing 18 holes, and me trying to play 18 holes, I had a ball. I loved being outdoors. I loved the conversation with them. I made four new friends. Again, remember, people-oriented, love people. I realized that it is true about the magic that happens on the golf course that I've heard everybody talking about my entire career. Relationships are built, friendships are established, and deals are made. It's fun, it's outdoors, I love landscapes, I love scenery, so long story short, I fell in love with the experience and the game first. Then because of my role at KPMG at the time, I got introduced to the business of the LPGA and their mission work, not only to grow the game for their professionals but to grow the game and expose others to the game from a community standpoint. That spoke to me. When I got a call one day from the then-commissioner asking me, "Hey, you've seemed to have really gotten attached to us and the work that we're doing, would you be interested if an opportunity came along?" I said, "Yes." I went through the process. I got the seat. Ironically, I just celebrated my third year anniversary on the board. I've started my fourth year and I'm the chair of the HR committee, and I sit on the legal and governance committee. Again, I love it because, at the end of the day, I'm helping them with their mission work connected to empowering women. I'm able to apply my leadership experiences and lenses to all the things that we're doing and help them execute a strategy. What's been really cool about it for me is at Dress for Success, I built and am driving a strategy. At the LPGA, they built and are driving a strategy. I'm watching these two things happen simultaneously. I'm actually seeing the synergies and the alignment. It's like, “Hey, wait a minute, that thing that's happening over there for me at Dress for Success, wow, it's good to know that's not unique to me.” I've learned, I've grown, I've built new friends, and I've built new relationships. I absolutely love being on that board. It's been completely fulfilling and continues to be. The Fritz Pollard Alliance is an organization associated with professional football and the NFL. They were founded years ago to help advance underrepresented talent on and off the football field. That's been great. I've been the chair of that organization now for almost a year. I've been on the board for a couple of years. My personal connection to that is I come from a football family. My brother-in-law played professional football for eight years. He coached for one of the NFL teams. Two of my sons played football from five years old all the way up through and including now in college. I love the game. I love the sport. I love being attached to anything related to football. I got introduced to Fritz through my NFL relationship. There, again, it's a nonprofit doing mission work to support communities, etc. It's aligned right to everything that I'm passionate about. I've had a really great experience helping their executive director Rod Graves do all the amazing things he does to groom, prepare, and give access to talent that might not ordinarily have access to opportunities. It literally ties directly back to my professional work and to my personal passion and commitment. I'm really excited to be a part of that adventure as well. Paula Edgar: I love that. I love the description of it and how you came to both of those things from a place of personal connection. Oftentimes, I think people—I was just having this conversation with somebody else—feel like they have to separate the places in which they give from the things that bring them joy. I think it actually works out a lot better for you when you have those multiple connections to the mission, vision, and impact of organizations that you're connected to. I love that. Also, shout out to you, [inaudible] shout out to Marcel, hi, we went to school together. Sorry, that's my little thing. Anyway, so we talked about your volunteerism, we talked about the work that you've done. What, in terms of lessons as a leader, would you say that you have learned about branding and how it's important to have leadership be impactful? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Yeah, I've learned a bunch of things and it's funny, I actually have them written down because I often get asked this question and I have a couple of things I'll share. I think the first thing is we always have to be mindful that we need to be on top of our game at all times. That goes back to something you said earlier. It's about excellence. It's about remembering, and I tell my young men this all the time, my sons, I'm like, "Guys, people are watching you. You need to be on your game." Something as simple as being on time, I'm like, "Look, on time is late, and early is on time, and late is completely unacceptable. People are going to judge you if you don't show up on time." In your work product, check your punctuation, check your spelling. Whatever it is, excellence is required. I think about it this way. As an employment lawyer, and now as a business leader, I'm constantly thinking about what am I doing to stay on top of my game. What am I doing to stay on top of the ever-evolving landscape for leaders? Technology is changing. You've got AI. You've got all these things happening. Every one of us needs to think about what are we doing to continue to grow. Like you said before that growth mindset, what are we doing to grow so that we stay on top of our game with whatever it is that we're doing? That's number one. The other thing I would say that I learned along the way that nobody told me is that you have to ask for what you want. I remember, girl, you know, growing up, my parents said, “Keep your head down, do your work, everything's going to work out.” Mm-mm. Yeah, guys, you were right about that. That'll help me get the grades. That'll help me have the work product. But I actually have to ask for what I want and not assume that someone's going to hand it to me. I've been in too many rooms as an employment lawyer where people make assumptions about what other people want, but nobody ever bothers to ask the person what they want and the person never bothers to tell the leaders what they want. You have to speak up for yourself, advocate for yourself, and tell people what you want or diplomatically ask for what you want, the worst thing they're going to tell you is no. Paula Edgar: That right there, that snippet is going to be all over the internet because it is literally the lesson that I keep learning but it's a present one for me most recently because I had somebody say to me, someone who was like, "Oh, they're my friend. They know me," and they were like, "You know, Paula, I've never thought about bringing you into my work because you've never asked me." It was almost a gut punch. I thought to myself, "Well, you know what I do, literally, I'm like a butterfly everywhere." They were like, "Yeah, but you've never asked so I thought that you were fine, that you didn't need.” I was like jaw dropped. It reminds you that people think self-promotion is this terrible thing, strategic self-promotion, not bragging, but being thoughtful is such an important thing. People need to be reminded about who you are and how you add value in order for those things to align to connect. That sits very present for me in terms of that ask. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Oh, I get it. Isn't that ironic? You think you get to a point in your career when you think you don't have to ask anymore, but you always have to ask and in different roles and different things, you have to ask in different ways. For me, for example, now, the coming to nonprofit, I had to learn how to ask for money. That was new to me. It's still new to me. It still feels awkward, but I have to do it. It's finding ways to ask for what you want and what you need is critical. At a more junior level, it's something I've talked to my sons about. My oldest son is three years into his professional career. Every year when he sits down to do his performance evaluation, I'm like, “Son, when you write that evaluation, I need you to think about, what are the things you think you need to continue to grow and develop? When you sit down with your boss, you ask her if they will provide you with funding to go get training to do that thing.” He's like, “Oh,” “No son, You need to ask because they're not just going to hand it to you.” We have to ask. Then I think the other big one, I have two more big ones. One is to build strategic relationships, to really think about building your network. I have a lot of friends that are introverts and they don't want to be bothered and all the things. I'm like, “No, no, no, no, you need to build a network.” I tell folks all the time to think about having an internal network wherever it is that you work and an external network, and that's a whole nother one-hour conversation that you and I have. Then finally, I would say to take strategic risks and stretch assignments, because I will tell you, I really do think it's how I'm sitting where I'm sitting today. Had I not raised my hand back at Pru when I was an employment lawyer and said, "Hey, I'll lead that committee," or, "Yeah, I'll help that ERG do that thing, and yeah, I'll lead that global Prudential initiative," it was me raising my hand, volunteering, stretch assignment, to do things outside of my day job that had people see something in me that led to, “Hey, I think she would be a good global leader for this organization,” and that in turn led to all of these other things. Paula Edgar: I want to break apart both of those things. I think they deserve a double-click. People say your net worth is your net worth, the who you know. But what I can say when I think about your brand is that how you do it because so often people are very much transactional when they try to meet people, they try to gather as many people as possible for it. I think a differentiator for you is that I've never seen you not be authentic and take time with people to actually be in community with them. That's why it sticks. I think when you talk about strategic, the strategic part is the most important part as you've just said. It's not strategic to like, “Oh, you can get me this,” but it is that nothing is going to the wayside. It is, “I'm seeing you for who you are and understanding that we all have a value, regardless of where you are, what role you're in.” I don't want that to go past because I think this is a big part about how brands are successful and working at a nonprofit and fundraising, that's even more important to be able to do. Then the other piece is my therapist, who everybody in my podcast knows well because I talk about her often, she says, "Growth begins where comfort ends." And everything you just laid out is that; is that you have gotten yourself uncomfortable in order to grow and the risks that you take in getting that discomfort have shown up for you. The reminder here is that if we stay too comfortable, we're not helping ourselves. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: That's right. It's actually funny you say that because one of my final comments on this question is to get comfortable being uncomfortable. That's what it's all about. When you get too comfortable, when you get too complacent, I described it before as that itch in my palms, it's like, “You know what? It's time for me to do something a little bit different here,” and it’s to really stretch out, so absolutely, I love that feedback. I do acknowledge, I think that on the strategic relationship part, I think it's been a little easier for me because I'm a people person. I really try to coach the people I mentor and just meet them where they're at because sometimes it's a lot harder for folks. I mean, I am curious about other human beings. I really care about getting to know someone. I'm not tapping into you just because I need you to help me with this. I really want to know you. Everybody's not like that. That's where I try, as I mentor other folks that are coming up, to really help them from where they're coming from, because everybody's not, “I'll walk up to anybody anywhere and start a conversation. That is a really authentic conversation.” I know you and I are very alike in that way, but everybody is not that. So that building relationship part can be really hard for folks. Paula Edgar: You just mentioned, and you mentioned a couple of times in the conversation, mentoring. Can you talk to me about why mentoring is important to you? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Oh, it's so important to me, because look, I mean, we think we know how we're received. We think we know we're doing a good job. We think we know all these things about how we're showing up, but how we think we're projecting ourselves may not be the way we are being received in all the things, in the work product, everything. For me, I love having a board of mentors. You and I have talked about this before. I love having a board of mentors who can inform me on all of those different aspects of my life and my career and who can be my truth-teller on all things and who also can be my temperature checks on things. In my own house, my husband and my three young adults are mentors because they will, over the years, different job opportunities come and I'm like, “Oh my God,” and they're like, “Mom, now you know,” and it's like, “Let's sit down and debrief.” I'm like, “Yeah, that's a good point.” They tell me the truth. They point out to me, “Mom, you know you would not last 24 hours in a space like that or whatever it may be.” So mentors are absolutely critical and critically important. I think the other thing I often talk to people about is the fact that over the course of your life and your career, your mentors should and will change because you need different people in your life for different reasons and different seasons. Paula Edgar: Yep, you do. That's why annually, I do an Intention and Goal-setting Session for anybody on the internet. I just recently did it. One of the things I said was, “Looking at your personal board of directors, who needs to be moved to advisory status and who needs to be current board members?” and looking at that each year, you need to see who has supported you and who hasn't, and also what you're needing as you're moving into your next step. It's an important part of brand building, but just strategy, period. When I was a young mother, I needed other mothers. I needed people who are older mothers, folks who understood and knew, who'd be able to hand down stuff. It's thinking about where you are and so your stages a life and what your next step is. If you can't figure that out, use the current board to help you move and then decide how you're going to shift around. But it shouldn't be the same makeup. Like every other board, everybody has to have a term. Sometimes you're bringing folks back on and sometimes they just go to advisory status and they're there, they're never disconnected, but they're not primary. They don't have to show up at all the meetings. [inaudible] Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I love that. Paula Edgar: Yes. You mentioned golfing, but I don't know if this is your answer generally. What, Michelle, do you do for fun? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: That's a great question. I love sports. My husband gets a kick out of me because whenever you put me in any arena, stadium, or what, I am the most giddy person in the world. There is something about the cheering, the music, the sportsmanship, the team. I mean, it just makes me get goosebumps all over. I love going to sporting events. My youngest son plays college football. From September through the end of November, every single weekend, I'm at a football game. Now it's NFL games. My other son is in the National Guard as far as the Color Guard so I attend all of his outings. I love anything related to sports. So take me to a game. Now, you don't want to necessarily put me on a field. Yeah, on the golf course, I'll play. But I love sports. I love attending sports, watching sports, and I love to travel. I absolutely love to travel. That's been really something that's been front and center for me over the last couple of years and I'd love to go and have great experiences with my family. Paula Edgar: Oh, I love that. My newest thing is I have learned to like football. I've always not said I didn't like it. I just was neutral to it. Then I watched these two documentaries on Netflix. I love sports documentaries. They make me excited. Even though I don't play sports, I love sports. So I watch Receiver and I watch Quarterback on Netflix. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: That was good. They were good. Paula Edgar: I was just like, “Oh my gosh, I'm a fan now.” So now my next goal is I need to go to professional sports, a football game. That's what I'm going to do next season. I have-- I'm just saying, I'm like, “You know what? Cause it's got to be--” Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Let’s do it. Paula Edgar: We've got to make it happen. One of the things I ask everybody is what part of your brand is something that you will never compromise on? Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: It's my integrity. I am really, really steadfast, I mean, I'm a lawyer by trade. I am all about doing the right thing in the right way. So I'm not going to take a shortcut. I'm not going to tell a white lie. I'm not going to skip a step. I am always going to take the right path. If anybody, anything, any organization, if I'm in a place where I see myself being led down a different path, I'm out. I'm just not going to do it. If I'm in a friend group where I'm starting to see behavior that calls into question the integrity of the group, I'm out. I'm just not doing it. I have had some things happen over the course of my life where that integrity has been tested. I'm like, “You know what, enter exit stage right at this point, not enter stage left, I'm exit stage right.” That's what I would say for me is absolutely a non-negotiable. Paula Edgar: I love the additional context. I think that integrity is probably the word that's been used by most of my guests. But I like the context and the examples because oftentimes I think people will think, “Yes, integrity. If they ask me to lie on this tax return, I will not.” But it's not just big things. It's small things that can be whether your integrity shows up or not shows up. I like that you talked about the other examples of what's unacceptable, what your boundaries are. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: It's true. It's funny, my youngest son, and I talk about this a lot because he's in college and he's been exposed to all these different groups and activities and all the things, every now and again, I'll ask him why he doesn't do one thing or another. He's like, “Mom, I really don't want to be with that group. That group, they don't always act right.” I'm saying to myself, I'm not saying it out loud, I'm thinking to myself, “Okay, you know what? I passed on some good genes.” Something stuck because he intuitively knows better than to be somewhere that he knows something might not go right, you know? That's where we are. Paula Edgar: That’s one of the reflections that I've had the most in the last four years, three years is because my daughter, she's a sophomore at Spelman, and my son, he's now 12 years old and although they are separate in terms of seven years apart, they're working tandem things because middle school sucks. Everybody knows I've said this before and college is a new experience. Seeing how they navigate friend groups and what they need to do to be involved, and what they say no to is a testament to what they have learned and seen from us. In some senses, I'm like, “Oh, did you learn that from us?” It's surprising to me to see it show up, but especially with my middle schooler, with the things that he is like, “No, no, no, that's not,” “Oh, look at me, pat myself on the back.” Yeah, all of these stages in life, we have to continue to figure out what makes sense for us. For me, the pandemic was a space where it was that shedding, that is this aligned with what because I realized how quickly that things could be what you thought was going to be, then the next day be totally different. We keep having that experience of life being lifing. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: True. Paula Edgar: My final question for you is this: Branding Room Only is a play on the term standing room only because I'm clever, and basically, my question for you is what is that Michele magic that is going to have a room filled to the gills with standing room only to experience about you. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: I would say it's my authenticity around just other human beings and I've been told this a lot. People tell me often that “God, Michele, you just get people to talk.” People just tell you things, people just open up to you about things. It really is because I am genuinely curious and caring and an empath at my core. It's funny, I didn't see it when it was happening, but now when I look back on my career, that's the reason I was able to get so many people to come to the ERG events or to come to my focus group or as an employment lawyer, to talk to me and tell me everything in that investigation meeting or whatever it may be, that's the secret sauce. Like I said, so many people have pointed it out to me. I didn't realize it until others pointed it out to me. But I know now as I get a little bit older, I know that that's the thing. Paula Edgar: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that that is definitely a pinpoint of the Michele magic. Thank you for bringing your magic to the podcast and having folks hear about you. We will definitely make sure we put a lot of information about Dress for Success, how people can support, what you all do, and all the other organizations that you mentioned as well and connect on your LinkedIn as well. Thank you for joining me. Everybody tell everybody who needs to hear all of this advice, they all do and spread the word and remember to stand by your brand, everybody. Talk soon, bye. Michele C. Meyer-Shipp: Thank you.