What Your Wardrobe Says About Your Brand with Estelle Winsett

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Description

What you wear is more than just fabric and fit—it’s a powerful reflection of your personal brand, confidence, and professional presence. But does your wardrobe truly align with your expertise, leadership, career goals, and the level of professionalism your industry demands?

Estelle Winsett understands this balance better than most. A former litigation attorney turned personal stylist, she knows firsthand the unspoken expectations placed on women in the legal industry. Now, as the founder of her own image consulting company, she helps female attorneys develop a signature style that commands respect, exudes confidence, and authentically represents who they are.

In this episode of Branding Room Only, Estelle shares how wardrobe choices impact personal branding and career success. She breaks down why style is more than just aesthetics, how to blend authenticity with professionalism, and the psychology behind dressing with confidence in high-stakes legal settings.

Chapters

1:08 – How Estelle defines personal brand, the three words that describe her, the senior yearbook quote that still resonates, and her ultimate hype song

3:20 – Why being a lawyer is in Estelle’s blood and how growing up in Memphis shaped her perspective on the legal profession

5:44 – Estelle’s career journey from litigator to personal stylist and how she rediscovered her love for style while helping women lawyers refine their wardrobes

13:03 – How Estelle built her brand by leveraging Facebook as she transitioned into personal styling

16:21 – The key to balancing personal style with the professionalism expected in the legal industry

20:00 – Common wardrobe mistakes lawyers make and a must-know tip for dressing confidently at your next conference

23:18 – Estelle’s top tips for aligning your wardrobe with your personal brand and showing up as your best self

27:08 – How career elevation impacts personal style and a couple of things that might trip you up if you’re not mindful

33:53 – How Estelle works with clients to develop a wardrobe that reflects their personal style and professional goals

37:16 – How to present yourself with confidence on Zoom and other video platforms without losing your personal style

41:31 – One thing Estelle makes time for every year, the core value she will never compromise in her personal brand, and what makes her Branding Room Only magic

Connect With Estelle Winsett

Estelle Winsett is a former litigator attorney turned personal stylist and the founder of Estelle Winsett Professional Image Consulting. She helps women attorneys, executives, and entrepreneurs elevate their brand through their personal style. As a sought-after speaker for female lawyers, she specializes in creating polished, professional looks that align with their roles, goals, and unique style preferences. With her practical and empathetic approach, she empowers women to confidently navigate any setting (from the courtroom to the boardroom) with clothing that reflects their authenticity and expertise.

Estelle Winsett Professional Image Consulting | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Love Your Style Again

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More on Style & Branding

Dressing for Impact: The Power of Personal Style in Leadership with Melanie Lippman 

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Sponsor for this episode

This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.

PGE Consulting Group LLC is dedicated to providing a practical hybrid of professional development training and diversity solutions. From speaking to consulting to programming and more, all services and resources are carefully tailored for each partner. Paula Edgar’s distinct expertise helps engage attendees and create lasting change for her clients.

To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.

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Transcript

Paula Edgar: Welcome to The Branding Room Only Podcast where we share career stories, strategies, and lessons learned on how industry leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. Now, let's get started with the show. Hi, everybody, it's Paula Edgar, your host of Branding Room Only, and I'm super excited for my conversation today with my guest Estelle Winsett. Estelle Winsett is the founder of Estelle Winsett Image Consulting. She's a former litigation attorney turned personal stylist who helps female lawyers elevate their personal brand through intentional wardrobe choices. As a sought-after speaker for women attorneys, she specializes in creating polished, professional looks that align with their roles, goals, and unique style preferences. With her practical and empathetic approach, Estelle empowers attorneys to confidently navigate any setting, from the courtroom to the boardroom with a wardrobe that reflects their authenticity and expertise, you know I love that. Estelle, welcome to the Branding Room. Estelle Winsett: Thank you for having me. Paula Edgar: I'm excited to have this conversation. Let's get started. What does personal brand mean to you? How would you define it? Estelle Winsett: I would say personal brand is what others think about you when you're not in the room. It's their assessment of what you represent, what's important to you, and just an overall opinion of what you stand for. Paula Edgar: I love that. What do you stand for? How would you describe yourself in three words or short phrases? Estelle Winsett: Oh, I know, that's a tough one. I think for me, it's really about empowered women empower women. I mean, that's really my mission and the reason that I'm doing this, and the fact that I'm a former practicing lawyer, now turned personal stylist, those are all factors, but the end goal is really about lifting up other women who are strong and powerful women, but maybe they're not standing in their power. My goal when working with women is to help them see that they can come in any room they walk in and style is such an easy and quick vehicle that I love using that as a tool. Paula Edgar: I love, love, love hearing that because it's true. I mean, I think obviously what we're doing aligns because I love talking about personal branding and it's my passion. I see so much where you see somebody who's got the goods, but they just are not showing the goods. I'm excited to talk about that. Do you have a favorite quote or a motto? Estelle Winsett: Yes, I was thinking of it when I was in high school, actually, the quote that I used in my senior yearbook actually still really rings true for me today. It's an EE Cummings quote and I'm probably going to butcher it, but just of it is to be yourself in a world that's constantly fighting to make you someone else needs to fight the hardest battle and never stop fighting. Paula Edgar: Ooh. That taps right into that authenticity, but which is yeah, no, I love that. We'll make sure we get the actual quote for the show notes. Estelle Winsett: Okay. Paula Edgar: So do you have a hype song? This is a song when they're going to get full Estelle in the room, this is playing in your head, or if you're having a bad day, what song is playing? It can be the same song or a different one. Estelle Winsett: I think it might be the same. It's Demi Lovato's Confident. I love that song. Paula Edgar: Oh, that's a great song. That's such a great song. Mine is also the same for both. It's Prince’s Baby I'm a Star. Estelle Winsett: Oh, that's a great one. Paula Edgar: This gets me going. Tell me this, how did you grow up and how do you think that shaped you? Estelle Winsett: Yeah, so I grew up in a family of lawyers. My dad is an attorney and he really motivated me to want to be an attorney from when I was fifth grade. I was just like, “I'm going to be an attorney like my dad.” He's a litigator. He's actually retired now, but he did plaintiff's work and really, I could just see his love of trying to help other people and people that were in justice, like how can you fight for people who can't get what they want, and you have a superpower with the law to be able to be their advocate. I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer, and I have two older sisters, they became lawyers first, but I had the idea. I was like, “But I wanted it first.” So yeah, they both became lawyers. I was the third, my dad tried to get my mom to become a lawyer, but she so far has not acquiesced. It was in my blood in a way. I guess you could say, so I just went straight through from undergrad to law school to practice in law. That was my path that I knew I was going to do from a very young age. Paula Edgar: Wow. What a legacy. I'm still holding out for your mom to go to law school. Estelle Winsett: [Inaudible] my dad. She's a teacher, but I always say I learned cross-examination from my mother [inaudible] to law firm. Paula Edgar: Oh, 100%. Teachers are definitely litigators. Whether they know it or not, I agree with that 100%. What city did you grow up in? Estelle Winsett: In Memphis, Tennessee. Paula Edgar: Memphis, awesome. What do you think the location and where you were and how you grew up shaped your vocation in addition to your father being there? Is there anything that you take from being a Memphisonian? I'm making that up. I don't know what you call somebody in Memphis. Estelle Winsett: I think that might be right. For me, I really love my Southern heritage and upbringing and it felt very much as a kid and even when I first started practicing that the law was a noble profession and I still believe that. I think a lot of the care and respect for the profession is something that was drilled into me early on and I still carry that. As the law has progressed, I feel like we've lost a little bit of that professionalism, which I hate because I think it's so important. But that would be something that I would think has really stuck with me. Just taking it seriously and giving it the respect that it deserves, especially if you're in a courtroom. Paula Edgar: I love that. So talk to me about the path, school in Memphis, knowing in fifth grade, but between there to then going to law school, becoming a litigator, and then now showing up on what you do now, tell me about that path. Estelle Winsett: Yeah, it's been a really fun path actually. I practiced law for about seven years here in Memphis. I'm still in Memphis. I have my family here, and now of course, I have my own family with three boys, and my husband is also a lawyer. I can't get away from them Paula, I just can't. But yeah, so I started off practicing law. I did implement law defense litigation. I did some med mal-defense litigation. I love the courtroom. I still miss that to this day. I love being able to have to think on my feet and advocate for my client. But after a little while, I knew I wanted to start a family and I found it really hard to separate work from home. You wake up in the middle of the night and you're worried that a statute of limitations passed. That's like horror feelings we used to have. I mean, I know I did. I think now, I actually had a coaching bit around in a more present way when I was practicing law. Who knows, I might have still been practicing because I think now that I love getting coached and I love coaching other people and I think it's such a great tool. But at the time, I just wasn't sure this was the path I wanted to continue. So I started looking at other options and so it's really a winding path to get where I am now. But my first deviation from the practice of law was actually as a legal recruiter, and it fell in my lap. Because as I was exploring options, I looked at doing some contract attorney work. I thought, “Well, that's a great idea where you could still use your mind, but you don't have the responsibility piece where you're worrying about in the middle of the night.” I went to interview to think about perhaps being a contract attorney. The gentleman that I interviewed with actually had been looking for someone to partner with him as a legal recruiting company. He's like, “Well, how about you work with me?” I fell into this great job and it was really fun. I learned so much more about the business of the practice of law. I was playing matchmaker and finding attorneys to fill in contract roles and also permanent positions. I worked with the law firms and in-house legal departments. It was fun to see from their perspective what they were looking for and how could someone fill that role. I really started to have day to day, I was just interviewing people and interviewing resumes. That led me into this whole legal career development, because I was helping women and men write their resumes and market themselves, because I would see people, and I'm sure you probably have given a year in the career development space as well, it's all about positioning yourself. I felt like there were so many ways you could position yourself stronger. So I started helping people with that. Ultimately, the law school here in Memphis had a position for Dean of Career Services. I ended up applying for that and got that position. I did that for a few years. Then I meandered my way over to the law firm setting and did the same professional development. I was director of professional development out of Am Law 200 firm for about eight years. I started that position. So the themes were there at an early age, one of which was an entrepreneurial spirit that as a young person, I never really thought I had. When I started really intentionally going after different roles and in cleaning my career path, I realized that that was fun to me and being able to position and market myself. I think a lot of what personal branding is, is how do you position yourself? You have to be adept at wherever you're interviewing, you have to change your positioning for that particular job. It's a skill set that you learned. In doing so, haphazardly, really, I started re-learning how much I love style because as a kid, I loved style all the time, and law school beat the style out of me. I mean, literally, I will wear the black and gray boxy suits, head down, new makeup, blend in the background, I got it. I stayed unfortunately in that realm a little bit too long, but at some point, I got introduced to a brand of clothing I liked and it just reignited this love of style and creativity and things that I just stuffed away. I started doing that on the side and was working for a company. A lot of my friends were coming to me because they were really struggling. At first, it was like, “Oh, I can help them with the style.” But then it became this confidence-building thing where I saw their transformations happen, and then it became addictive. Because then I want other women to feel this way. That's how it worked and turned and twisted. I started my own full-time company about a year and a half ago. I have been focused on helping female attorneys level up their style ever since. Paula Edgar: I love the trajectory. We have a lot in common because I also have worked at career services in three different schools. Estelle Winsett: Oh, wow, okay. Paula Edgar: I also, obviously law firms are my main client in terms of who I interact with, but I love the perception and understanding of that line of understanding positioning and figuring out that branding is understanding unique value proposition and how you align it with what the needs are of the organization or the person and however you're showing up. Clothing for me is such a big part of it. When somebody is confident and they walk into a room, something changes. Like the air changes, something about them. I love that you said that you found it when you were little and you got it back again because so many people I think feel like, “I can never get it back again.” I've had conversations where I've been like, “You can wear this scarf, I promise.” I am not a stylist. I just have my own style. But I also know that when people are in a uniform that does not work for them, it just looks like they're in some kind of imprisoned space. I'm really glad that you're doing the work you do. I love having conversations with people who talk about style because it is so personal, but it is also such a skill set that you can give to somebody once they get their own understanding of what their style is. Talk to me about what your father thought when you decided you were going to become a stylist. Estelle Winsett: So funny. It's great. He's always been one of my biggest cheerleaders. I think when I first made the deviation from the practice of law to being a legal recruiter, it was weird. I mean, I was used to identifying as an attorney. He has always been supportive, my family too. But I think it was like, “Well, this is different. I've never heard of this. What is this?” I think I've become, because I started that whole going off of my own path, like my family is starting to get used to it. But that's me. I like to just do my own thing. But it's all about feeling authentic because that's true. When you're talking about when I'm working with clients, everyone is different. If you're wearing something that you think you should wear as an attorney, but it doesn't feel like you, then that energy that you show up in, it's like it drags you down, as opposed to the energy that clothes can give you when they really light you up and they feel like you. Paula Edgar: Oh, it's so, so true. I remember when I first graduated law school and I was like, “I went to Macy's, I gotta get a suit and it's gotta be a skirt suit.” I tell people all the time, “If I'm in a suit, call somebody. Something is wrong, I've been kidnapped,” unless it's like, I don't know, sequined, then something's going to be wrong. There's that. Tell me how, from all the shifts that you have made in terms of your career, what are some of the platforms, what are some of the ways that you have built and shifted your brand through those shifts? Estelle Winsett: Sure. When I first started playing and getting into style a little bit and helping other people beyond just myself, I created a Facebook group and it's just a private Facebook group and it's for women attorneys and it became this space. I started it during the pandemic. It was a place where women could come together. A lot of the women attorneys were in there. Most of them are probably like me, just women attorneys, but it became just this space for women who are out there busting it, working really hard, but they don't necessarily have a support system behind them. I think as women we do that often and so it became this place where we could gather and just talk about things that maybe other people in your family don't relate to or your friends don't relate to and just having this space. That became this really fun platform that I started to grow and now we have over 2,000 women in there and it's really, really fun and I've done different things like sometimes I'll do Facebook lives in there and other times I'll host closet cleanse challenges and things like that. It's been a really fun way and it really was for me, it was my first venue of really putting content out on a regular basis. I focused a lot on education and teaching people things. But then also it became a place where people would reach out to me and ask me if I was taking one-on-one clients. So now that I'm full-time in my business, I definitely make my offers there and it's been a really great evolution for me as a business owner to learn how to create content, how to position myself and what I stand for, and how to find my people. Like you said, your ideal client avatar and trying to talk to her and know that this is out there and available. I would say Facebook was really my first foray. I've tried Instagram and I've done it a little bit. I feel like as a stylist, you feel like you need to be on there because it's so visual. I like it, but my two favorite platforms are Facebook and LinkedIn. Right now, I would say LinkedIn is probably my absolute favorite. Paula Edgar: Agreed, same. Estelle Winsett: Yeah. But doing the Facebook and getting used to putting myself out there and having a voice and learning what is my voice and writing, you get into that mode of really understanding who you are and what you want to say, that helps me tremendously before I started posting on LinkedIn because I've gotten in that rhythm of doing that with my Facebook group. Paula Edgar: Right, and you poofed it, the process already because you already had folks. I didn't realize, I think, probably until the pandemic, just how many lawyer groups are on Facebook there. Estelle Winsett: There are so many, I know. Paula Edgar: There are so many, and every intersection, like lawyer women who like to decorate their homes. Estelle Winsett: The Peloton Law Moms group, one of my favorites. Paula Edgar: Yeah, and it's great that that is there for community in terms of when we were in the pandemic, but I love that it continues to be a space for people to not have to worry about how they're showing up in the same way. But the interesting thing, because I actually thought about writing an article about this, is that there are some ways in which you'd still have to think about how you're showing up, no matter what platform that you're on, and how you can carry over to other things. When you think about branding and the work that you do, I can imagine that there must be a little bit of strategy, or maybe a lot of bit of strategy in how you interact with your clients. I imagine that that might be somewhere where some of your legal skillset dives into the work you do now. What do you say are some of the carryover skillsets from practicing to being a personal stylist? Estelle Winsett: Yeah, well, I think that first one that I talked about in terms of professionalism, the respect that the law requires, and understanding what that is. I think as a woman who's practiced law, I know the rooms that my clients are going into, I've taken depositions, I've been in court, I've gone into board rooms. The law is a very conservative field. It takes a little bit of finessing sometimes if you're trying to put your personality front and center while also remaining professional. That's really where I felt like I could add value in a way that was unique. I think a lot of my background helps me just understand what these women are dealing with on a day-to-day basis. I know how to tell you how to dress for a firm retreat and how to go from day to night and how to go to a firm cocktail party. I've done all that. I feel like that background really helps me help other women navigate these circumstances because there are so many environments we go into as lawyers. They're also professional, but their dress codes are all over the place. That can get really intimidating if you don't really know how to navigate that. Paula Edgar: It's so, so, so true. I think about when I first started working at law firms and talking about professional development, I would just walk in and be like, “Look, I know I'm not what you expect.” I'm going to always have nails, I'm going to always have this. I'm not trying to be not seen. I always want to be seen. That's not what you're probably used to. That kind of de-escalated it because people were like, “Okay, now she knows she's different too. This is good. Then let's figure out the conversation.” But I was just thinking about something that happened to me just yesterday. A law firm partner who was doing an event for some of his clients was like, "Oh, do you want to come to this event?" I was like, "What kind of event is it?" And he said, "It's cigar smoking." And I was like, "Oh, what do you wear to that?" It's usually my sweater dress he's going to wear. He was like, "I don't know what to wear. Why are you asking me that?" But it's so true when you think about all the different places that you have to be and thinking about, you might be a little bit different than everybody else who's there. If not, you still want to align and not be so outside of it that people feel uncomfortable in navigating, so much to talk about. Estelle Winsett: Right, I mean, there's a way to bring in the personality while still remaining professional. There could be another time on your free time where you could really share your full personality. Maybe that's not the setting at certain work functions, but it doesn't mean you have to leave it completely at the door. It's just figuring out ways to express who you are while still looking in the part. Paula Edgar: I remember I went to an associate retreat at a firm once and this associate was like, “Can I talk to you? I had done a presentation on branding.” I was like, “Sure, what's going on?” He pulled up his trousers and he was like, “Look at my socks.” Estelle Winsett: Love it. Paula Edgar: Yeah, his socks had quotes on them. I was like, “You know what, whatever makes you feel like,” because he’s like, “Because [inaudible] uniform, but my socks always have something going on,” it was so cute because it's like, “Come over to the corner. Let me tell you about my socks.” Everybody out there, you can find your places where you can feel that a little bit of ownership that helps you walk into a room or come confidently, even if you're still wearing the uniform that they expect you to be in. There's that. Tell me this, I do a lot at law firms, a lot at bar associations, and I have seen what I would call some significant wardrobe mistakes. What are some that come to mind when you think of some things that you may want to warn our listeners in terms of how they want to navigate in some spaces? Estelle Winsett: I think one of the biggest ones is, so some are associates, I mean, that was the thing that was big when I was at the law firm setting. It's confusing because you may get invited to a ball game or you might get invited to a picnic, but you're not sure what that is. First of all, if you're a summer associate, you're on a six to 12-week interview. It's not just you got the interview and you now have the job. You have to think through that. But almost being more formal than you think you should be at those kinds of events is probably the best advice I could give you. If you're wearing a sundress and you run into the partner or the managing partner at the firm, it may not be the best thing. I think if you think of it in terms of casual versus a little bit more dressed up, that can be a really good way to just make sure that you are not going too casual. I think that can be a big mistake that I see. It's a hard one to explain to people, and people don't want to talk about style, but you need to, because you need to know that you're putting your best stuff for it. That's when that comes to mind for me. How about you? What are some of the things you've seen? Paula Edgar: Oh, well, I do a lot of conferences and I do think that if conferences and any organization wanted to have people align better, they should give some feedback. The same retreat I was talking about actually on the tables, they had their little handouts and it said like, “For tomorrow, this is our agenda,” and suggested outfits and I just thought, again, they don't have to do exactly that but they gave some framework that for us, this is what business casual means and it showed sweater. I thought that was for me a very much an inclusion factor because then folks across the board, not just people who may not be from underrepresented, but folks who associate economic, just all of different levels-- Estelle Winsett: First generation [inaudible]. Paula Edgar: Exactly. The mistakes are usually around showing too much or being too frumpy. The frumpy thing I see across gender where the clothes don't fit and you just look like a sad sack like my mom used to say, "You look like a sad sack," where the clothes are wearing you. Post-pandemic, I saw a lot of folks who came out either 20 pounds lighter or 20 pounds heavier, and their clothes weren't fitting properly and it was really hard for them to figure out what their new style was because we were used to being in these squares versus in person. But I think it's getting better now. I would say the most mistake is not knowing how to, as you were mentioning, align with the space that you're in, the culture that you're in. All different law firms, all different spaces have different cultures. One of the things I recommend to people, especially if you're going to conference, is to look at the previous years, like what do the pictures show? What kinds of things are you seeing? Yes, yes. What do you think in terms of top tips for women attorneys, what are some of the things you tell them to make sure that their personal and professional brand and their wardrobe align to be their best selves? What are some of those tips? Estelle Winsett: Well, I think the first one is what you just touched on, which is fit. I always say fit is more important than the price of a garment. If something fits you well, that is going to be more of a mark of I think style than if it's the most expensive thing you could find in the store because that doesn't necessarily equate to either style or professionalism. I think if you got something that you find the best quality you can afford, that's what I always say. But even just going to the tailor, and I know people loathe going to the tailor, but you would be surprised how just $10 here for a helm or maybe $20 to take something in or out, the difference it makes is huge. Not only does it just look better but if you think about it, it shows that you have attention to detail, it shows that you put some thought into it so you're probably someone that is not going to be sloppy when you're doing your work for someone else. It's all of these characteristics that actually are displayed that actually apply to your work as an associate or a summer associate. Paula Edgar: That's a really good point that I don't think people think about enough. How you take care of yourself is usually aligned with the work product. Because if you think of yourself as your first assignment, then people can expect from you that similar consistency. I think that that is true. I remember I live in a neighborhood, there were a lot of lawyers in my neighborhood and so I tell my husband, “I’m never going outside without makeup. I can't be seen.” But one time-- Estelle Winsett: You have an accidental meeting. Paula Edgar: Right, just in case. Well, this is what happened. I went to the supermarket and the attorney general was in the supermarket. I was like-- Estelle Winsett: Wow. Paula Edgar: But I was wearing a sweatsuit. Unless you see me at home, I'm usually in a dress. That's my outfit. She was like, “Oh.” I was like, “Oh.” Estelle Winsett: You're like, “Oh, please, please don't look at me.” Paula Edgar: It was funny because it wasn't like a, “Oh my gosh,” but she felt, I think, relieved because I'm not always like at the top. Estelle Winsett: Yeah, she's like, “Oh, thank goodness.” Paula Edgar: But I laughed and so did her security when they were like, “What was that?” But if you have that consistency, it can be helpful, especially if you have an off day. If you're not consistent, people will give you a break if you have been very thoughtful and consistent about what your work product is and how you show up. Estelle Winsett: Yeah, and from a branding perspective, consistency is what builds trust. If you show up in the same style and I think when they talk about branding and coming up with your style preferences is if, say, one day you show up like Kate Middleton and the next day you show up as some kind of edgy person, no one's going to know what to expect from you, but they're going to feel something's off and there's going to be this distrust and they can't really put their finger on it, but it's that know your lane, figure out what that is, and then stay consistent so that people know what to expect. Paula Edgar: I mean that's interesting because I thought about putting together like a style icon but sort of a [inaudible] as opposed to a person but I think it does make sense to think I'm X type person because then when you are veering, you're veering off on purpose. I gotta think like who's my person? Estelle Winsett: Yeah, well, exactly. Having style icons, most of them are celebrities or people who have stylists and so they're going to dress very well and in a consistent way so you can get inspiration from them. But also you could be this blend of different style types because everyone's unique. But just figuring what that is for you and you evolve over time. Your style preferences, your style should evolve with the level of expertise you have. I think it's really important every five or so years to reevaluate. Paula Edgar: I mean, let's not let that go past. I want to focus on that. Style should evolve as you evolve professionally. It's true, it's like when they say you dress for the role that you want and dress in the role that you're in. I find that people are less strict with their style as they elevate. Do you find that same thing too? Estelle Winsett: I think so too. I think to a certain extent, they feel like they've earned it. I get that, when I was practicing law, every day was full of suits, whether you went into court or not, that was just the dress code. To some extent, I think, as attorneys, you're like, “Okay, I think I've earned the right if I want to wear something a little more casual, I can. I have the gravitas already” kind of thing. But I think that sometimes that can get in your way because you still are meeting with people and you're still your own brand. I think that you can be casual, but be put together and have a style that is consistent. The other thing that's important too is I talk to women all the time and they say, “Well, I just want to be comfortable.” For me, I'm like, “Yes, comfort is a baseline requirement. It's not a style description. It needs to be a mandatory, but now let's talk about your style.” Paula Edgar: Again, I want to pull that out because I do think that people think to be stylish, you have to be uncomfortable. I feel that about shoes. I would love if I could just have all of my clothes, everything from like the ankle up, I'm good to go. As soon as I get the shoes, I'm like, “I want to be in sneakers.” Estelle Winsett: Yeah, it’s tricky. Paula Edgar: It is. The last conference I went to was an all-women's conference and I wore white sneakers, I literally was like, “I'm just going to be comfortable.” The funny thing is people were like, “Ah.” For me, it was so far from the conference space to the hotel room. I was like, “There's no way that I'm going to be heeling this this whole time.” I would bring my heels in my bag and just never put them on because no one cared. It was very much like people felt comfortable with the comfort, but I felt nervous and I rarely do about but I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm wearing sneakers.” Then I was like, “I'm wearing sneakers.” Estelle Winsett: I'm owning this. This was my original choice. Paula Edgar: Yes, I mean, yes, and, all of those things. I love really thinking about that phase and elevation of your style and your brand. I can imagine a fun idea would be to look back career-wise at people's styles as they have manifested. The other day I pulled out some of my headshots, like my old headshots, and I was like, “What was I thinking? What was happening there?” But in the present time, I was like, “This is the best outfit that you ever going to see.” It is sobering, but also a good place of looking at evolution to be able to see how you have shifted. Yeah, that might be a good exercise. Hmm, hmm. Estelle Winsett: It's fun. Well, another thing to think about is, sometimes what trips women up, I mean, I always talk about the fact that, I mean, I know for me with hormones and just over time, I think my body has shifted so many different times as kids and perimenopause, and all these things that we experience. But even if your body hasn’t changed, this actually can be a real problem. If your clothes still fit you from 20 years ago, that doesn’t mean you need to still wear them. Because then people don’t want to get rid of them because they still fit. It’s like, “Yes, but.” Paula Edgar: That is going to be a clip that we pull out for Instagram because it is so, so true. I used to watch these reels that would be like, "You don't be the old auntie in the club." I'm like, "I'm not in the club, but I don't want to be the old auntie." And it is, it's figuring out if you're still with my daughter, I have a 19-year-old daughter. I'm like, “If you and I are wearing the same thing, we have a problem because I passed a whole bar exam and have a whole two childs in a mortgage, this is a problem.” There's one thing, I like to have the jeans that I'm like, “These are the jeans I've had from those times.” I like that piece, but not that mini skirt, not that leather outfit, not those things that were age and time-appropriate, then that probably haven't shifted in style, fashion, or with years that have gone along either. But I love that as a reminder because I know there are some people who feel like they’re letting go of their youth. It feels like letting go of who you were. Estelle Winsett: I also think that it feels wasteful to certain people that if something fits, like why should I spend money on a new outfit or a new garment? I always say if it's in good condition, let someone else love it. There'll be someone else who would love to have that inner wardrobe that they don't have a suit and you have this amazing suit but it's not who you are today. So if there's that disconnect, then it's a mismatch. I think that you're right, there are certain things that are really timeless but the suit you wore on campus interviews, it's not the suit you need to wear as a partner. Paula Edgar: Facts, 100%. Estelle Winsett: I mean, you can, but if you're on a different spot. Paula Edgar: It is true. I, most probably, right before the pandemic, and then right after we did this process at home where we worked with, not Silas, but with folks who were going to help us to declutter, it was when I realized how important clothes are to me and how emotional it is to, so basically this woman made us put all of our clothes in one pile. Everything. It was one of the most traumatic things I've ever been, that I was like, I'm like, “How are my babies? They're all touching each other.” It was like Marie Kondo, we pick it up, have you worn it, do you love it? What I found was I had bought the same outfit in multiple sizes more than, I don't know, five or six times and forgotten that I had them because I had my clothes in too many spaces, et cetera. I get to the place now where it's like, every six months I run through my closet, which is now color coordinated. I feel very good about that. Estelle Winsett: Yes, I love that. Paula Edgar: To be able to look and just see what haven't I worn in this color? What do I still want to, maybe it's a one-off thing for a special event, but it feels good to give the clothes away when I know that [inaudible] to them. It does feel good. Yes. Let go, people. Estelle Winsett: You totally can. I think about it when I went through, we did some renovations to my house and I remember at the very beginning, I was very hesitant to let certain things go and then you reached the point where you're like, “Hey, that can go too. That can go.” You just get it all thrown away. It's a very freeing feeling. Paula Edgar: Yes. It is. I remember doing that in our kitchen and then being like, "Where the hell is everything? [inaudible] Where's my favorite pot?" Tell me about the process of when you're working with a client. When somebody reaches out to you, how do you start the process of working with them, to know them, and for them to know how to work with you? Estelle Winsett: Yeah, well, I start with them and don't start with the clothes. We have a style discovery session where I ask them a lot of things. Some of them are getting a unique style preference as we all have our things like I don't like these kinds of shoes or I don't like that but also it's like what's the message you want to send through your style and what about your current style don't you like and what do you want it to feel like. Really it's about embodying how do you want to feel, what's dragging down, let’s pinpoint why and what would actually make you feel like a million bucks and how do you want others to perceive you because that's got a whole branding piece because if you're going to a conference or you're going to a client meeting, you want to show up and send the message you want to send and that's the beautiful thing and we get to do that. We get to crack the message. If you think about it that way, it's really empowering, especially to an associate where a lot of times, nothing is in your control as an associate, but you can control how you show up. That's really cool when you think about it from that lens because you have an opportunity to show the world who you are. Paula Edgar: I love that. I love the question of what is your style right now? Because self-assessment is the bottom line of branding. You have to know where you are right now before you think about where you're going to go and what if it's not working? What is happening right now? I think about the cookie cutterness that we have in the legal profession sometimes and the people who stand out are the ones who stay within the cookie, but they have a little accoutrements that is different. Estelle Winsett: [inaudible]. Paula Edgar: Exactly, some little sprinkles, something there that makes it that they're not the same and it does stand out. Did you ever watch, oh gosh, I'm going to forget the name of the movie. It was a show on Netflix, but was based on a book called "The Partner Track." Did you watch it? Estelle Winsett: Oh, I didn't finish it, but I saw, I really liked it. I saw parts of it. Paula Edgar: The woman who was on The Partner Track in there, I remember thinking the style team did such a great job because, from the decision of her being an associate, she looked cookie cutter. Then as soon as she decided she was going to be a partner, you saw the shift in the wardrobe. It was a subtle thing, but of course, I recognize that thinking about branding all the time. It can make a difference. I do believe in the dress how you want to be perceived. Estelle Winsett: 100%. I literally just signed a client yesterday who said, “I'm up for partner in August and I want to look the role. We're going in the office more, because I don't have to, but I know if I want the vote and I want to be, I need to be in the office more and I want to feel confident, still not super dressy, dressed to the nines. I want to feel good about myself and then I look like I'm taking this seriously.” So much of it is you want to look like you put some thought into it. There's something about that that shows others you're prepared. Paula Edgar: I get this probably irrationally angry when I feel like people don't put thought into it. Oftentimes when I am on Zoom with somebody and I have a meeting and I may not know them already, I look like this in the Zoom. This is my Zoom background all the time. I see them fixing themselves and it cracks me up because it's like, “I'm not asking you to dress up. I don't even need your background, but I need you to have thought about what you're going to and how you're going to show up.” In thinking about that, I want to talk about how you embrace and think about style in the hybrid world we live in. It's not just when you're standing in front of somebody, but it is in these boxes that we live in. Is there anything you talk to people about in terms of that top-up branding [inaudible]? Estelle Winsett: Yeah, you want to really look at the box that you have and what you're working with. That could be not just what you're wearing, but your background. You want it to be clean and professional and do your best to curate a spot. But also, if you were to ask me, what is the thing that is a signature thing for me, it's my earrings. I love bold earrings. I like glasses too, but my earrings are my favorite way to add to my personality. This is not overbearing, but it's like a pop of color. It's just something that shows who you are that isn't going to be noisy, but it's just personality and there's a way to do it. You can even take a video of yourself on Zoom and then go back and watch the replay. How does it look? Do you have any distracting mannerisms? Is your hair looking crazy? There's something that is just not giving off expertise or expert status and then playing with it. Even if it is, and I won't get into makeup because people can get all kinds of work done, talking about makeup, and I think it's very personal. But I do like lipstick that adds a little something. Because you don't want to disappear in the screen. I think about I’ve gotten older, I feel like I need a little more color in general. It's just about being confident and feeling like you are looking your best and having that objective eye to step back and then look at yourself and that's a video, you can say, “Maybe I could work a little bit in this area.” Paula Edgar: Absolutely. It's why I love Zoom. It’s my favorite platform of all the other platforms because number one, they have a beauty blur. One. Number two, they also have a lipstick filter of which I'm like-- Estelle Winsett: Oh, there's eyebrows too. Paula Edgar: Eyebrows, exactly. Zoom cares about what you look like and I appreciate them. Estelle Winsett: Yeah, they’re not going to leave you in a lurch. Paula Edgar: Exactly. Zoom doesn't care if you just woke up. They're going to make you look the way that you're supposed to look on Zoom. But also, I tell people don't turn off the self view. There are some people who don't like looking at themselves that they don't like to. I'm like, “No, no, no, no, no. You need to know what they are seeing and whether it's distracting or not, figure it out. You need to know what they're seeing.” I've had several conversations with women attorneys mostly about not liking that view. I'm like, “It's you, regardless of,” it's like when you go to self-checkout at the supermarket, it's like, “Oh, my gosh, is that what I look like?” Estelle Winsett: You're like, “Oh, gosh, that's really good.” Paula Edgar: Yeah, just kidding, just kidding. Estelle Winsett: But it's true though, because then you're not aware of it. If you forget that you actually are visible because you don't see yourself, you could just really be way too relaxed and casual, but you're not engaged, yeah. Paula Edgar: People do what I call the lean back. They get really comfortable and I'm like, “Whoa.” Well, and I've had partners who talked to me about associates who they say they don't care because they're not sitting up and squaring up in the Zoom box. Again, it's all about perception. You do. One of my favorite things during the pandemic was WorkRobe. Do you know what WorkRobe is? Estelle Winsett: No. Paula Edgar: WorkRobe was a robe, but it looked like a dress. Estelle Winsett: No. Paula Edgar: I had three of them. It was a [inaudible]. My favorite thing was they don't know I'm in a robe. I'm in a robe, y’all. Estelle Winsett: So funny, I love it. Paula Edgar: It was the best invention ever. I was like, “The pandemic people are really out here thinking,” because I would be sitting in my robe, like, “Ha, ha, ha, I'm in my robe.” Estelle Winsett: I bet you that it was a woman that came up with that. Paula Edgar: I mean, well, right, exactly that. All of those things are important. I'm bringing them up and asking you from the style perspective because I think people sometimes only prioritize how they show up when they're in front of somebody. But remembering that you're making a mark and people are perceiving you no matter what platform you're on and if you're in person or not. Well, I want to talk to you about something very important to me. What do you do for fun? Estelle Winsett: I think I may have mentioned when we first got on that I just came back from Miami. I have a posse of girls that we like to travel together and I tell you what, I don't think I could do life without it. It's just wonderful and it's not every weekend although that'd be nice but at least a couple times a year if I get my college girlfriends I'm getting together with at the end of the month and then the girlfriends that I was just with are women attorneys. We've gone through so many different stages. We've done these trips and gatherings for four years. We just know each other. We have a blend of you can relax, but then you can also brainstorm and ask business questions to each other. It's just the perfect group, but it's fun. We love Miami and the beach, especially now with it being cold here in Memphis. I think for me, travel is probably my favorite fun activity. Paula Edgar: Same, same. I love it. I love an airplane and I love [inaudible]. So same with that. I ask the following two questions to every person on my podcast. The first one is that what is the authentic aspect of your personal brand that you will never compromise on? Estelle Winsett: I think it's in empowering women. I think that that is so important to me and it's really the throughline in everything I've done and you can't tell me otherwise, I'm going to tell women to take up the space as long as I can breathe. Paula Edgar: Oh, I love that, and I love that that's also how you started the conversation too, the empowering women part. That's a great circular experience. Speaking of experiences, Branding Room Only is a play on the term standing room only because I am clever. So tell me this, what is an experience, a magic Estelle that people are going to be in a room with no seats left to experience about you? Estelle Winsett: I think that you can be powerful and confident and fun together. I am not going to be stuffy. I'm going to make you laugh. You're going to have fun and there's nothing wrong with that. I think maybe one of my superpowers is just being your biggest advocate and cheerleader and making something that may seem tough to you, actually a pleasant experience. Then you actually enjoy yourself more because life is too short to take yourself too seriously. I think that's a big part of me. Paula Edgar: Oh, life is definitely too short to deal with foolishness and to take yourself too seriously. I love that. So, Estelle, tell everybody how they can stay in touch with you and connect to your work and your brand. Estelle Winsett: Yeah, I would say I'm probably most present on LinkedIn, so I'll make sure I have my LinkedIn profile for you. Of course, I'll welcome any woman to join my female Facebook group. It's a lot of fun, so I'll give you the link to that too. Then I've got a website in different places. I have been doing speaking, so that's another thing that if you're interested in your organization, I've got that on my LinkedIn profile too. Paula Edgar: Fantastic. This has been a wonderful conversation. Everybody, tell that woman attorney you know who needs to think about this, to listen to this episode and that one who's looking to elevate to listen to this episode, and that dude who wants to wear fancy socks to listen to this episode. Estelle Winsett: Yes. Paula Edgar: And everybody, as always, stand by your brand. Estelle, thank you for being on my podcast. I appreciate the conversation and you're welcome back any time to talk about whatever you'd like. Thanks so much. Estelle Winsett: Thank you. This was so much fun. Paula Edgar: Same.