Using Branding to Empower Women of Color for Success in the Workplace with Minda Harts

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Description

Your voice is a significant part of your brand. But what is the impact of not having a voice in the workplace?

Many Black and Brown women feel unheard and undervalued at work. Their stories of experiencing unfriendly, biased, and/or disadvantageous environments are often ignored or discredited.

As someone who was never the most boisterous in the room, Minda Harts used to feel like she lacked a voice. Her profound brand has continued to grow and evolve as a workplace and equity consultant, bestselling author, and speaker.  

Now, through her books and consultations, she’s helping Black and Brown women figure out how to empower themselves for success in the workplace. And she’s on the show to talk about the experiences of women of color at work and what can be done about it.

In this episode of the Branding Room Only podcast, you’ll learn about how Minda built her brand to showcase the workplace traumas experienced by women of color and help facilitate the healing process. You’ll also hear about what it means to be an ally and a better leader, the need for authenticity in your branding and work environment, the importance of building more equity in inequitable spaces, and how it all leads to the elevation and evolution of brands (both personally and professionally).

Chapters

1:39 - Part of Minda’s personal brand, her three-word description for herself and Beyonce, and what might be at the root of slander against Beyonce 

5:04 - How Minda realized she had a voice and a brand 

7:32 - How the disconnect with the brand of Black women in the workplace ties into Minda’s brand and her first book, The Memo

13:22 - The Audre Lorde quote that’s Minda’s go-to mantra, why her second book Right Within made me cry, and why it was hard for her to write it

19:20 - How Beyonce and Drake pick up and energize Minda and the space that women of color have to enter to know that they’re enough

22:09 - The journey Minda took to build her brand and the necessity to elevate and evolve your brand over time

26:34 - How those who want to advance equity can use their understanding of women of color to be better leaders with better brands

30:18 - The branding mistake everybody made after George Floyd’s murder and why identity doesn’t equal having expertise

34:58 - The audacious expectation that Black and Brown women speakers (especially those early in their careers) must be careful of

39:14 - Why working with a brand consultant was the best thing Minda did when she started (despite having fewer resources at the time)

41:54 - What Minda does for fun that not many people know about, the core value she’ll never compromise on, and the secret sauce to her magic with others

Mentioned In Using Branding to Empower Women of Color for Success in the Workplace with Minda Harts

Stephen A. Hart | LinkedIn

2024 Intention and Goal Setting Webinar

Connect with Minda Harts

The Memo, Right Within, and You Are More Than Magic by Minda Harts

Minda Harts on X | LinkedIn | Instagram

Sponsor for this episode

This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.

PGE Consulting Group LLC is dedicated to providing a practical hybrid of professional development training and diversity solutions. From speaking to consulting to programming and more, all services and resources are carefully tailored for each partner. Paula Edgar’s distinct expertise helps engage attendees and create lasting change for her clients.

To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Welcome to the Branding Room Only Podcast where we share career stories, strategies and lessons learned on how industry leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. Now let's get started with the show. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Branding Room. It's your host, Paula Edgar, and we talk in the Branding Room about how leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. And I am super excited to have with me someone who, although she probably doesn't know it, is my friend in my head, real good friend, too, Minda Harts. And she is a workplace and equity consultant and the best selling and award winning author of The Memo: 0:42 What Women of Color Need to know to Secure a Seat at the Table, as well as Right Within How to Heal From Racial Trauma in the Workplace, and her first young adult book, You Are More Than Magic. She's a highly sought after speaker and thought leader, and she frequently presents on topics on advancing women of color, leadership, diversity and management at many companies, all of which you probably wear and visit all the time. In addition, she is an assistant professor of public service at NYU's Wagner graduate school. She is award winning. She's all the things and Minda, welcome to the Branding Room. Thank you, Paula. Happy to be here. And you're making me smile. The colors. Thank you. Thank you. All of those who are on YouTube, well, they always see I have to make it. I like to feel like it's summertime at all times and they're just happy. So I do what I can. For those of you listening, jump on over to YouTube to see if you can just check out my outfit. Ootd. All right, so speaking of branding, Minda, tell me, I just said a whole bunch about you and what you've done, but tell me, how do you define the concept of a personal brand? That's a great question. And for those who may not know my work, I kind of root everything in pop culture. Branding really is your straight with no chaser, whatever that might mean to you. And for me, branding is all about who you want people to see, who you want people to experience, whether it's your brand or a product, and the experience that you want people to walk away from. And to your point, you said that I'm a good friend in your head, right? That's part of the brand. My brand is to make it feel like we've had several conversations in the living room, I'm your workplace best friend. And so I think that authenticity also leads to intentionality when we're creating our brands. Oh, I love that. I love know, obviously this concept of branding and authenticity always sort of overlap if done well. Right? I think know when you are inauthentic, your brand doesn't resonate in the same way. But to the point about pop culture, you brought it up without me even saying anything. So Minda and I have a lot in common. Number one, our love for Beyonce. I rarely go a day without bringing up the queen bee, Beyonce. And so you just made me smile thinking about that piece. So tell me this. I'm going to ask you something I never ask anybody else because I think that, I don't know. I told you, we're best friends. So one is this. Describe yourself in three words or phrases, and then describe Beyonce in three words or phrases. Oh, my God, you're speaking my love language. I get to talk about Beyonce on the podcast. Thank you. I would say describing myself, I would say introvert, extrovert, genuine. Oh, I love that. I love that. So you're an ambivert got you. Okay, so what about Beyonce? Fierce, dedicated, intentional. Yes. All of that. For those of you who are listening and who are watching, just know that you should just take a moment of quick silence to think about how fabulous Beyonce is, because she is. I have not yet seen the movie. Have you seen the movie yet? I just saw it on Sunday night or earlier a couple of days ago. And now I've been. This is probably for off topic Paula conversation, but I'm like, in all this Beyonce slander, I'm like, what is going on here? Oh, it is absolutely on topic because I believe that everything I love, everybody else should love, like, leave her alone. And let her be great. One thing about brands that I find that a lot of people don't necessarily connect is when you have a really strong brand and your brand is unwaverable. If you stick to the core of your values, people tend to push back on that when they themselves are unable to be that authentic or to be that dedicated. And I see that happening a lot where you have folks who are masters of their craft, and that is how I would describe her, because they're haters. Anyway, all right, so now getting back online, tell me about your sort of story. Give me a quick 1 minute. We're jumping in the car in a moment. And we got the blast music after this, so we won't be able to talk. What is that? The Minda story. You know, I was one of those people, Paula, that because I wasn't the loudest in the room or the most boisterous, or I didn't necessarily walk in a room and everybody's like, who is that? Didn't, I couldn't have a brand. I thought that I didn't have a voice. And once I realized that branding isn't just for entrepreneurs. Branding is for every human right. We see pets on TikTok that have a brand, so never discount yourself. And what I found for me is going through corporate America for 15 years, I used to think I didn't have a voice. But what I realized was I always had a voice. I just had to decide how I want to use it. And that's how I think about branding. We all have a brand. We just have to decide how we want to use it, how do we want to brag about ourselves in those ways? And so for me, my brand was. I didn't realize that I had one even in my nine to five, but it really was around how do we advance women of color in the workplace? And I started to lean into my stories, telling my story, thinking that really I was the only one. So it was therapeutic for me, and I just wanted to make the workplace better than I found it. And then I started writing, and then I started podcasting, and then I started speaking on these topics. But I did it in a way that was authentic to me. Yes, there's tons of public speakers, right? There's people who've come before me that have written about gender and identity and race in the workplace, but nobody was doing it like Minda can do it. And once I owned how I do it and sharing my story through vulnerability and using pop culture to break down really tough topics, I found that there were others. I found my people, right. And so for me, it allowed me to really think bigger, so I didn't have to be like so and so. Right. I get to be like Minda. Yeah. No, that is such a wonderful way of reflecting. Because even if you tried to be like so and so, you couldn't, right, nobody can be you. And it's why I tell people that their brand is their magic. You can have the exact same resume as somebody else, but the way you deliver the magic of you, nobody can duplicate. They can try and fail miserably, but they cannot do it in that way. So you talking about how you brought your own special mindaism, mindanness essence of minda to conversations around. This has me reflecting and remembering some of the times in which I've seen you speak, whether virtually or in person, about the importance of sort of why The Memo was your first book, why you had it, to bring that conversation to the masses and you, in those conversations about black women and their experience of trauma within workplaces, you catalyzed so many other people. I was in conversations where I saw you speak and then conversations where we were speaking about what you spoke about. And it was still is a movement where black women are so often silenced or gaslighted. Right. And marginalized in continuous ways. And yet we are relied on to do so many other things, particularly when things are bad, that there's this disconnect in terms of the brand of the black woman. Right. It's like, please do everything to make it better. Also, please. We're not going to give you the value that you deserve, and we're going to act as if the things that you're saying happened to. You did not tell me some of the things that maybe that brings up in terms of that reflection about black women in the workplace in particular and how our brands are built up and brought down. It's like a teeter totter. It really is. And I think we've seen that in the last couple of years, even in 2023. Really heavy. So when I first started this journey, Paula, I never set out to be a brand, actually, because I am more of an introvert than an extrovert. I wanted to be able to tell these stories, but I didn't really want to be the face of them because it wasn't my comfortable space, right. Because again, I thought that a brand was. I had to be, like, tap dancing all across these stages, and that just wasn't my personality, right. Because I didn't see it in other ways. And what I realized was what people liked most about me was me, right? The way I storytell, the way that I bring in practical tools. And I realized that my brand wasn't just about me, it was about the ecosystem. And once I was able to say, okay, this isn't just about what I'm doing. This is about how do we make it better for the next black woman, right? The next author, the next speaker. And once I was realized that, I'm like, my brand is connected to Paula. My brand is connected to these other women, right? And so I was able to look at branding as not just a one time thing or Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but it's a lifestyle, right? And it's a lifestyle of commitment. And so even when I sold my first book, The Memo, I was met at the time, there were five major publishers. Four of them said no because they thought that these situations were isolated, they weren't happening, right? And so again, I'm like, wait a second. I am black, last time I checked. And these things are happening, but they're also happening just to a lot of other people in different spaces. But we can all work at the same place and experience that workplace differently. Doesn't mean these things are not happening. They're just not happening to you. Right? Again, for me, I was already met with all these different things. Kind of being an early adapter in many spaces, opening up the door, even with Right Within. Oh, trauma. But now we hear about healing and trauma so much, right? About healing in those ways. And so for me, I realize again, my brand isn't just for me. It's to crack the door open. It's to expand the conversation. And what I've realized was timing is everything, right? My book got pushed back. A lot of people don't know a year further than what it should have been based off of because powers that be didn't believe that this was real. Right? And so, again, constantly trying to convince people, but as I often say, don't focus on who doesn't get your brand. Focus on the who that do and lean into the who that do. You get to the places you need to get to, because that's the energy. Those are the people you want around you. Come on, bars. I see it. It's the who that do. I read a quote. Somebody shared their favorite quote today, which I'm going to ask you about in a moment, but their quote was focus on the donut, not the whole. I like that. Right. And I was like, you know, if. Number one, I'm hungry. Number two, it's exactly that. We often have this negativity bias where we think about the bad things as opposed to the things that are good or benefit or the doors that were closed that were actually open windows. Speaking of which, next two questions. Tell me, do you have a favorite quote or hip hop lyric or the mantra that you like to use or to be inspired? Yeah, so many of it. One quick thing that you said that kind of hit my spirit was we're all building, right? Brands sometimes evolve. They stay the same. But at some point, brands do have to evolve. I mean, look at any said brand that is no longer here. But they could have evolved, but they missed the train and somebody else took that. But when people didn't get my brand of advancing women of color in the workplace, aka equity in the workplace, when people weren't really on that train, one of those four that said no to The Memo said yes to the book I'm writing right now. So just again, people may not get it today, but it doesn't mean they don't get it. And yesterday's price was not today's price when that happens. Okay, that part. Answering your question of Audrey Lord, she said, I am deliberate and afraid of nothing. And that is where I gain my energy. That is my day to day mantra. Because this work isn't easy. Being a mouthpiece when it's not popular know is speaking for those allowing my voice to be tied to someone else's freedom. That tough at times, right? I just got to chill. That's part of the brand, right? And so for me, I have to be deliberate, and I have to be unapologetic and unafraid, because, again, I know that I am a beneficiary of so many other people's brands, encouraged. So who's going to be a beneficiary of mine? Tearing up. Okay. But it is my secret word at all times. So every year, I do a vision board. I do a goal setting session for anybody who wants to do it. Then a vision board. And I have a secret word in my word that is the focus of my vision board. And it's always impact. And what you just said is literally impact. Right? Like, how are we impacting the world if we only stay siloed and just in our own spaces? What's the legacy that we are going to use if we're only thinking about our own experience? And also, our success is connected to other people's success. Right? We are collective, even though Covid had me questioning that because people wild out there. But the point is, it is so true. So I think that resonates deeply. All right, so Audrey Lloyd's quote is one of my favorite quotes, too. So you just, like, really? You catalyzed me. I was like. Exactly. And yesterday I was telling somebody that I was going to be interviewing. I was so excited, and I could not remember the name of Right Within. And this is what happened. So I go, it's a hip hop lyric. I know it. It's Lauryn Hill. I'm sure you should have seen this. All the table people were like, every other Lauryn Hill lyric except this one. And then I sat back and I was like, it's Right Within. How are you going to win if you can't got within? We all laughed because we literally did hip hop karaoke. Just trying to figure out what that lyric was. And of the books, I've read The Memo and Right Within, and I'll have to say two parts. Number one, Right Within made me cry. And of course, it's talking about black women's trauma, right? So obviously, I'm not separated from that, but so often I'm a lawyer, I'm very much here, I'm reading this. This is very literal, but it was so on point, you could tell that the research you did, the experiences you have, they were pulling from that heart space of black women and women of color, right? Not just black women. So I want to be thoughtful about that. So to that end, and I know I'm skipping around a little bit, but just give me a minute. I'm having a little fangirl moment. When you were writing that, was it hard for you to write it? I was sitting there. It was hard for me to read it. Was it hard for you to write it? Like a labor pain, right? Like, here I'm giving the world this thing, but it's hard. 1000%. That was the hardest book I've ever had to write. And it's actually my favorite book, because The Memo was, like, fun and light compared to Right Within. And when I hear people email me, or they'll say, oh, I started Right Within, I had to put it down for a minute and then revisit it because it was like, it's a process, right? And then just yesterday, I received a message from someone. They said, Right Within, saved my life. And that is the healing journey, right? And for me, it was hard because for a long time, I didn't even know that I needed to heal, right? That this was trauma, because I normalized this inequity in the workplace, and it started to impact my authentic self, right. Because I didn't know who that was anymore. And so when we have to revisit those pieces and mourn those pieces of our careers, that's painful, right? And oftentimes, as those on the margins, we don't get the space to be able to reflect. We just have to sweep it under the rug and move on to the next job. And so Right Within really is a soft place for us to land and be free. For me, I'm so proud of that work, because freedom is what we should all be aspiring to, right? The memo was acknowledging that these things exist now, that we aren't crazy. We know that they happen. What are we going to do about it now, right? And so it's the answer to, okay, girl, I know, but now let's do the work. Yeah, it is exactly that. You just hit it right in the head. It was like, yes, lots of who. And then also, now what are we going to do right now? What's the next step? And what I loved about that book is that a lot of people were like, hey, boss. Hey, people who are in leadership. Here's a book you might want to read. I'm just going to leave it by your door. Casually read it. And what I saw was people were actually reading it to be able to tap in and understand this enigma, who is black women that they make sound like if we are some aliens, but we're not, it's not hard to know that we want to be treated fairly and treated as if we matter, because we do. Thank you for letting me go down that path for a little bit, because I just remembered, I just got that feeling of. Because I listened to both your book. I read it, and I listen on audiobook, because for me, as someone with ADHD, it helps me to ingest the information faster. But you could hear. I was like, oh, I feel like she just got a little right when you were reading it. Fun fact, when I was recording the audiobook for Right Within, there was a couple of parts where I had to tell the engineers, okay, I need a minute. Yeah. I thought we were past this, but I guess not. So, yes, healing is a lifestyle, right? All of that. Therapist on demand. Hello, I need you. Okay. Speaking of healing, music brings healing. So I ask all of my guests, what is your hype song? And this is what people can expect when Minda's about to come and talk to them. What's playing in your head? Or if you're having a terrible day, what song do you need to play to get you back into that space of being in a better space? They could be different songs or the same one. So two things. Going back to Beyonce, there's always a Beyonce song that either makes me feel like I could climb on top of the roof and fly, or if I'm having a hard day, then it brings my spirit back up. And that's albums to 4, that's Renaissance. It's Bonnie and Clyde, her and Jay. And know. Got to get that swagger know. Those things energize me. And then also, I know he's toxic to some, but Drake. There's a particular song called Underground Kings, and there's a line that says, I was great before I knew I was right or before they said I was, and so I knew it. And so even if there's moments where other people don't get what I'm doing, they don't understand the vision. They don't see it. I know what's possible for me, right. And speak that life into ourselves and so those songs like that bars, really hard hitting bars. I called it aka hood scriptures. I really appreciate. I love that. I love that you have to be your biggest fan piece of it. Right? Because speaking of Beyonce, even though I always say she was star search, her mama knew she was all those things. I do feel like there were people who were like, okay, but she's still ain't all that. So she still had to tap into her own space. And when we get to the promised land, wherever that is, and however that is, black women will be able to say that, I don't need that outside. I want it, but I don't need it. I can say that I myself, am enough and then not be in places where they don't feel like you're enough. That part, period. I often tell people that because it's the energy that you bring with you, right. You belong in every room that you enter, but not every room deserves to have you. And I think for so long, we have been trying to like, hey, look at me. I deserve this. It's like, okay, once we've advocated for ourselves and if we're keeping met with this resistance, then at some point, know that you still are enough, but this space, you can't grow and be planted here. Yes. And that is also relationship advice, ladies and gentlemen, just in case. All of that. All of that. Do not go where nobody is watering your plants. Thank you very much. Okay, so tell me, you've kind of dipped into it a little bit. Talking about going from being in the business space to writing to having The Memo platform. All of that can weave it together for us. How have you built your brand? Right. From going from not understanding that you had one and realizing that you do. Tell me a little bit about that journey. Yeah. I like to say, Paula, that I'm like the girl next door. Like, if I can do it, you can do it type of. I didn't, and I still don't to this day. I didn't know a lot of celebrities. I didn't know a lot of influencers. But I said, I have my voice and I have my point of view, and I picked a platform where I could be consistent. Right? And so for me, at the time, in 2015, it was Twitter. Twitter was the space where I said, I'm going to commit to tweeting every single day, talking about what it's like to be a black woman, woman of color in the workplace, ways that can be helpful to. I know these things are happening, but here's how we move forward. And I just doubled downed on that, and I just kept doing that. And eventually, I started a podcast, and I continued to talk about the same things I talked on Twitter, but in a larger way. Right. I broke things down that were conducive to my space because I was still at my nine to five, so I couldn't be filming content all day long like the young kids on TikTok. I didn't have that space. I wish that I had, but I had to do it at what made sense to me. And then the next part of that was, where is my audience? Right? Then I started, I said, okay, Twitter is still very good, but LinkedIn, that's where my people are because they're in the workforce. So I'm going to create more content that focus on women of color in the workplace. And I really just did that for several years. But I must say, in 2015, I launched a newsletter. So I kept that newsletter up for years and years and years. And so eventually, all the content that I had written through Twitter, the newsletters, LinkedIn, became my first book, were the things that people booked me for to speak on. Right. I was consistent. And if you come to my pages, I try to stay consistent. I might add other topics to it, because at the end of the day, like right now, I'm writing a book on trust. Some people might say, well, do you still talk about women of color? Yes. Now I'm talking about everybody. Because nobody's going to survive the workplace without trust. Right? It's. Yes, and. And so I think that some people say, is it a new brand? Are you doing something different? No. Equity is equity, right? And I'm taking the group I had in 2015, they're coming with me as we elevate the conversation. Right. And I think that that's part of building brand. You want to elevate. You think of brands like Sears and JC Pennys. And Kmart, some of those brands that they had everything at the palm of their hands, right? And some were able to transition and build, and some weren't. Or good brands like even Walmart. They, during the pandemic, realized, you know what? We better have some things that people can shop online. So no brand gets it right every time, but realizing that you have to elevate and evolution has to occur. And so now I protect my brand by any means necessary. And I realize how important that is. Again, not just for me, but for the group who started with me. I have to say, when I left corporate America in 2019, I jumped and black women caught me. So I am forever grateful to women of color. I would not be talking to you right now if that wasn't the case. So I'm always true to where I started, but taking people with me. That in a nutshell, right? Black women. And you're catching me on the tail end of having been to the African American Museum of History and Culture in the city in DC. So I feel very much close to my ancestors at this time. But black women have always sort of been the foundation of elevation for other people. Right? And so to be in spaces where black women are saying we are going to be the foundation for elevation for ourselves, our collective selves, is so important. And that's the movement that you continue to build. And so in thinking about that piece, you talked about trust being your next space. When I think about branding and I think about the corporate world and I think about the experiences of black women, I think about leaders. And so talk to me about some of the ways in which leaders who truly want to advance equity can use their understanding of women of color and their want to be better for women of color to be better leaders with better brands. Yeah. I think that branding should really be a whole course inside the workplace, right? Because we each come with a brand or our authentic selves, but they all need to come together for that shared goal and purpose. And whenever I'm speaking to a group of leaders, I'll say, don't you want to make the workplace better than you found it? Don't you want your seat of influence to help somebody else? Don't you want to speak someone else's name in the room that's not here right now? Right. Or do you only want to advance people who look and talk like you? And so the other part of it is allyship. We talk about that a lot in the workplace. But part of being an ally is who's benefiting from your allyship. So going back to leadership, who's benefiting from your leadership, right? Can the people that trust you as their manager, is it that they trust you? Or did you just assume because you're the boss, trust is automatic, right? What have we done to build trust? What have we done to restore it? And what have we done to create it? And so I want to give people the tools, because if you have, on last Friday, if we all did a team retreat and now Monday layoffs come down, it's hard. That's a low trust environment, right? I can't trust that I'm going to even be here by the end of the week. But when we have leaders who are willing to be transparent, who are willing to be vulnerable, who are humanizing the experiences of every single person on the team, then we can get to a more productive workplace, a more inclusive, a more equitable. And so if we provide trust as the foundation, the bedrock of any institution, then black women feel heard and seen, then LGBTQ, anyone over 60, disability, anything. We all have that core pillar of trust, and I don't think we can have equity without trust. We can't have safety without trust. Right. And so I'm asking, okay, let's everybody get back to the basics. Trust is not a soft skill, but it's a leadership skill. And I think all of the work that you do, I do. It's leadership development. And people are side eyeing each other left and right at work. And I feel like it's time that we have the conversation and give people the tools they need to speak the same language again. That part the side eyeing each other. I'm laughing because thinking about the times that I've side eyed people and also that continuing to hear about people side eyeing folks because what they're saying is not who they are and what they're showing. Right. And so if there's not alignment in who you say you are showing that vulnerability, don't ask for belonging. If you're not going to put some vulnerability on the table so that people can feel safe, to your point, in that space, it doesn't matter what letters you throw out there. Right. If you do DIB, all the letters don't matter if what you're actually doing doesn't align with what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. And I think that the future of work can't be sustained without trust. Yes. Especially if you go into an election year. I t's going to be even more imperative. Yes. I am doing pre therapy just to get myself involved. Just talk about something that might happen. Okay, so tell me, when you think about folks'brands that you maybe interact with or seen, et cetera, what are some mistakes that you might have seen people make when it comes to building their brand? What I love about this question is, I might not have been able to answer it a few years ago, but I can distinctly understand it now because of the unfortunate murder of George Floyd. After that, everybody was a DEI practitioner. Okay. Yep. Wait a second. Last two months ago, you wasn't doing that. Wasn't what she was talking about. Okay, cool. So I feel like the biggest mistake that people can make, and I think all of us, if we're not careful, can fall subject to this. But is bandwagon branding, hopping on things because you think it's cool, because you think it's sexy, because you think it's just going to get you paid. That's not sustainable. Yes, a lot of people got some checks in 2021, but some of those people are not employed today or they're now thinking, oh, what happened? It's like, okay, real ones know this work ebbs and flows, right? And what are you in it for? And so I think that the biggest mistake is bandwagging branding. You see, just because someone else is doing a course doesn't mean you have to do a course too. It might mean that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that, right? If everybody's doing a podcast and that's not really your ministry, don't think that that's something you have to do to be part of the brand. Often people follow, will say, I want to write a book, I want to write a book and I'll have a call with them and I'm like, is it that you really want to write a book or you just want some press? Is it just a newsletter? Sometimes it is. And I think people get caught up in what they think might, just because it might be working for someone else, that that must be the thing that I have to do, right? And there's so many vehicles that you can brand yourself with that it doesn't make sense that you have to copy somebody else's path because that's not your path. It may, to your point, may well be your path, but vet it. And so you just had me. Those of you who are watching on video, you will see that I just did a little moment, because when you said about folks, everybody being a Dei person after George Floyd's murder, it was frustrating from a brand perspective for multiple things. One, when you are actually somebody who has been working in equity and talking about leadership and culture way before that, to have people who align themselves with your same skill set and knowledge was just, for me, very frustrating. But on the flip side, it was organizations who were not vetting people properly, who weren't looking for folks who had sort of a long breadth of having been impactful in this work because they just wanted their brand to be, that they cared, right? And so there was, on both sides, like, do the work, people do the work. If somebody can't say, hey, talk to this person about the impact I've had, that's problematic. So I tell people when they're wanting to start new in someplace, align with someone else, right? Do something with them so you can say I've worked on this project with this person who is an expert as opposed to coming out there and nobody is there to be like, yay, squad, because you've not done anything. And another piece is that because you occupy an identity does not mean you occupy expertise in a space. Preach, preach, preach. People will come to me and say, do you think you can do this unconscious bias training? I'm like, I could, but, you know, who is better at it? I could if I had to, but it's not my lane. Right. And I think that's a mature part of branding. I think when you get to the point to say, you know what? That's not what I do, but I do know who does. And when you're everywhere, you're kind of nowhere, right? That doesn't mean you can't grow and expand, right? But it does mean that if somebody's coming to you, they're like, you are a dog lawyer, and all of a sudden they want you to do the whole animal kingdom. That's probably not going to work because, you know, dogs. And so, yeah, it's something I don't think that we have yet talked about on the podcast. So I'm really excited in that particular piece of it where people have just got to be better at not trying to fill a need with whomever is the flashiest or who is the most recent. It's the who has done the work and who is going to be impactful in this space. Which brings me to something that I saw. It might have been you or somebody else posted this the other day. So we both are speakers. We both speak for organizations and the decline, I would say, of engagement and investment in spaces, given the further we get away from George Floyd's murder and also the shenanigans of the Supreme Court have made people a little bit less committed in their spaces someplace, right? So I always say not everything is for everybody, and not everybody's going to always kind of be in a space of wanting to advance. That being said, that being said, what I will not abide by and you will always hear me talk about this is where you have people who want our skill set and don't want to value our time and energy in the way that they should and in the way that they value other people. And I'm talking about opportunity and financially, all of those other spaces. And so when you think about branding, I'm like, you get what you pay for. And if you start to discount what you pay for, you're going to get that discount as well in what is delivered. And you will have to understand that because don't you find that there's this expectation that we should take less and do more? Yeah, it's audacity, really. You know what I mean? Because it's like, wait a second. This is my job. Put some respect on that. At first, it really used to irritate me, and it still does. But when someone asks, I think recently I had someone ask me do a 90 minutes workshop for free at a major company. They're like, but we know you love doing things for women of color. I'm like, ma'am, yes, but I have a house and I can't pay my bills off the mortgage off of exposure and kindness, although I do a lot of pro bono work throughout the year. But I think that we just have to do better. And that's part of the equity. Right. That's part of the trust. Being a small business, can I trust that the client is going to pay me in 30, 60, 90 days? These are all important pieces of the journey. And I think that for those listening who hire talent or speakers or facilitators honoring that because there are some that you would pay$100,000 to, you would never ask Brene Brown to come and do a 90 minutes workshop for free and be sober, you know, and so. And not be like, psych, just kidding. And I feel like especially for black and brown women, again, anyone on the margins, speakers, oftentimes if you don't have a certain title behind your name, then people think that you can do these things for free. And I think that that is, again, participating in the oppression of inequitable spaces. And so if you don't have the payment, then make it work for everybody. Right. If you don't have the budget. But again, going back to trust, be transparent. Yes, let's have transparent. And if you're going to do this for me, then also make sure that you're being equitable when Paula comes and does this, too. Right. And so part of that is that we have to have these conversations so that people are aware of them because I know some speakers who are early in their career, they're doing a lot of things for free because they think they have to. Right. Let us clarify it for you really quick. You don't have to. You may want to and there may be some reasons why you should do something. Right. But you don't have to. And in fact, I just feel like if we are truly talking about creating equitable spaces, we have to start with. It's not equity for you to ask for me for a discount as I come into your multibillion dollar organization, because I know breakfast costs $10,000. So let's stop playing, right? And stop playing with my time. Like they used to say back in the day, don't play on my phone. My grandmother used to say, are you playing on my line? Yes. That part, don't play on my dime. Don't do that. All right. Any advice that you might have for anybody who is currently trying to build a brand or thinking about sort of reimagining their brand? Yeah. The best thing that I could have done was I started working with a brand consultant. And I know that might sound very pricey, and at the time, I didn't have the same, had fewer resources to do it. But I invested in some boot camps and some workshops to help me get my brand logo workshop. If I'm wanting people to hire me or consider me as a facilitator or buy my book, then I need a functioning website. There's just certain things that I need, even if it's just a landing page or a logo. And so think about those things. Invest in yourself. Invest in your future. There are a lot of things that you can do on some of these sites, but it does sometimes require those who have expertise. And one gentleman in particular who helped me, his name is Stephen A. Hart. You can find him on LinkedIn, but he really helped me with my branding, and he has branding courses, and they're affordable. And that really set me on the road to success to really think about. Oh, there's a lot that goes into a brand. It's not just saying that I'm the brand. There's other pieces of the puzzle. And I think for you to understand, if you want the best puzzle piece, find your squad to help you get there. I love the. And I've seen Stephen speak before, and I will be asking him to be on my podcast. So, Stephen, in case you hear, please. Welcome, welcome brother from another mother. Okay, come on down, Stephen. I think that's great advice. That's great advice for anybody. And no matter where that phase is, is thinking about. I find so often people just like you were saying at the beginning, I don't have a brand. And I'm like, okay, even if you don't feel like you have a brand, you still do. Yeah. And that's actually even worse because you're not actually putting thought into it. And then there are the people who do too much where it's only about their branding. Right. And so you got to find your space along that authenticity. So to spectrum to decide what makes sense for you. And sometimes people will message me and say, oh, I listen to the podcast, but that person is blah blah blah blah. And that person, I'm like, but you are your own brand. And so just thinking about what you want to be out there and how you show up, whether that's just your LinkedIn or that's your website or both of those things, just down to how you show up and what you wear, it's still important, right? Throwing it to the side is not something that... I will never say. It's not important how you show up. It always is. And in all the different spaces, but not so much that it becomes a burden, but that it becomes and shows up as a natural space for you. Yeah. Well said. So tell me, I kind of know the answer to this already because again, we're best friends. In my head, what do you do for fun? That's a great question. So for those who don't know, my fur baby Boston Harts, he passed away a little over a month ago. So my fun was really playing with him and giving him his best bougie dog life. And so now I'm in this phase, Paula, where I'm rediscovering pieces of myself that I hope to have new hobbies and I'm working on what that looks I like to. A lot of people don't know this, and this is a first that I'm going to tell you on yours since we are friends. But what I like to do for fun is because I like rap so much. I always have. When I have time, I go into the studio, I rent studio space, and I just rap and freestyle and do things. I like that and no cds coming out. Buy her mixtape right now. That is where I just unleash. That's where I find inspiration. And so for fun, I do like to pretend rap. And it's just a space for me to be silly and fun and hard when I want to be. I love that. I love that. Bars, Minda, empty hearts, all of that. That is fantastic. Thanks for giving me a Branding Room Only exclusive. New drop. New drop Minda. Hilarious. Okay, this might go into that space because it is about authenticity. So I ask everybody on my podcast two the same questions. Which is this stand by your brand. What is the aspect of your brand you will never compromise on? I really love this because I think for me, generosity, no matter what I'm doing, how quote unquote, people might see my brand elevate I always want to be generous, generous with information, generous with my time, generous with giving. Being generous is a privilege that is part of my core values, is generosity. And so I put that in my book. I'm generous with who I am, vulnerability. So generosity, I feel, has always served me well because people have been generous to me. I love that. So you are like some of my other guests, you go into rooms all the time, but the branding room only is a play on standing room only. Right. When you would go into a concert, maybe it's Drake, and it's only standing room because everybody wants to be there. My question for you is, what is the magic of Minda, that people would go into a room, standing room only to see you do or experience from you? I would say I love this so much. Is my vulnerability. I think that is my secret sauce, that it connects people see their story. My story is her story. Yeah. I think that you are absolutely right because you're like all of our best friends. You are our workplace and also weekend and my best friend just generally. And I am so grateful for you spending some time with me and with my audience to give us some of your vulnerability. Tell me, how can people find you, connect with you? Tell the people how they should connect. Well, thank you so much, Paula, for having me. Thank you for always supporting me through my know. So when you asked, it was an easy yes. So thank you. Thank you. Find me at mindaharts.com and from there, you can find me on your favorite social platform. Fantastic. Fantastic, everybody. Make sure you share this with your colleagues. Tell them to buy the books. We will link all of the books on the show notes page. And you know what? Next time you listen to your favorite hip hop bar, remember, Mc Minda's back there somewhere doing the same thing, but we're not going to get the mixtape. Have a wonderful day, and I will see y'all soon in the Branding Room.