Refresh Your Personal Brand and Stand Out in the New Year with Stefanie Marrone

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Description

A new year is the perfect time to revisit your goals and refresh the vision that defines your personal brand. And who better to guide us through that process than my friend (and returning guest), Stefanie Marrone? Stefanie is the powerhouse behind the Social Media Butterfly blog, where she tackles the latest issues affecting lawyers and legal marketers. She’s a LinkedIn pro and an early adopter of the platform, but her expertise extends far beyond—covering social media strategies, branding, and marketing at large.

In this episode of Branding Room Only, Stefanie and I dive into actionable strategies to help you revitalize your personal brand for the year ahead. You’ll learn how to build your brand both internally and externally, create authentic content (with a little help from AI), and connect more effectively with your audience. Plus, we’ll talk about embracing stretch moments to grow and stand out in a way that feels true to you.

Chapters

1:33 - Stefanie’s personal brand definition, how she defines herself in three (or four) words, and her favorite quotes and hype songs

11:42 - Stefanie’s struggles as a talker, what led to her going on LinkedIn, and why her brand exploded

17:50 - How Stefanie and I met, our similarities, and one non-social media way you can build your brand

22:38 - Three actionable steps you can take in January to set a strong foundation for your personal brand

27:34 - One of the most important things you can do with your content

30:53 - The power and importance of internal branding and some suggestions for how you can do it

35:07 - Personal versus professional persona, the struggle to pivot between the two, and how some corporate cultures make it more difficult

41:28 - How to use AI tools to get more effective and authentic content as your output

46:43 - Content creation strategy insights you can use without having to start from scratch

52:17 - Habit-building recommendations for you to adopt this year so you can consistently elevate your brand

Connect with Stefanie Marrone

Stefanie Marrone is a legal marketing professional with over 20 years of experience helping law firms and legal service providers develop and execute strategies that drive business growth. She has held senior in-house roles at firms including Sullivan & Cromwell, Paul Weiss, Proskauer, Morrison & Foerster, Mayer Brown, Goodwin and Tarter Krinsky. In these roles, she created successful business development initiatives, internal and external communications strategies and multichannel marketing campaigns for practices, industries and individual lawyers.

As a consultant, Stefanie works with law firms, professional service firms, B2B companies and legal associations to develop customized marketing, social media and business development strategies. She also serves as an outsourced chief marketing officer for organizations in the legal industry. Stefanie focuses on helping her clients achieve measurable results, enhance their brands and grow their businesses.

A published author and frequent speaker, Stefanie shares her expertise through The Social Media Butterfly Blog and articles for publications such as Law360 and the New York Law Journal. She also creates and delivers tailored training programs on business development and social media strategy to help organizations and individuals achieve their goals.

The Social Media Butterfly | LinkedIn | Instagram | Threads

Mentioned In Refresh Your Personal Brand and Stand Out in the New Year with Stefanie Marrone

Branding Room Only Interview With Stefanie Marrone: Loving LinkedIn

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Sponsor for this episode

This episode is brought to you by PGE Consulting Group LLC.

PGE Consulting Group LLC is dedicated to providing a practical hybrid of professional development training and diversity solutions. From speaking to consulting to programming and more, all services and resources are carefully tailored for each partner. Paula Edgar’s distinct expertise helps engage attendees and create lasting change for her clients.

To learn more about Paula and her services, go to www.paulaedgar.com or contact her at info@paulaedgar.com, and follow Paula Edgar and the PGE Consulting Group LLC on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Paula Edgar: Welcome to The Branding Room Only Podcast where we share career stories, strategies, and lessons learned on how industry leaders and influencers have built their personal brands. Now, let's get started with the show. Hi, everybody, it's Paula Edgar, and welcome to the Branding Room, where I speak to influencers and professionals about how they built their personal brand. Today, my guest is my friend, Stefanie Marrone. Let me tell you about her. She is a legal marketing professional with over 20 years of experience working with leading law firms and legal service providers. As an in-house marketer, she has held senior roles at firms including Sullivan & Cromwell, Paul, Weiss, and Proskauer, where she developed business development, branding, and social media strategies. As a consultant, she helps law firms, professional service firms, and legal industry companies build their brands and businesses through tailored marketing and revenue-generating strategies. She's also a phenom on LinkedIn. As I mentioned, she's my friend. Stefanie, welcome back to The Branding Room. Stefanie Marrone: I am so happy to be here. Hi, Paula. It's been a year. Paula Edgar: I know. Stefanie Marrone: Yeah, it's been a full year. There's so much to catch up on. Your podcast is doing great. It's one of my favorites. I'm so proud of you and congratulations for doing a personal branding podcast that is really helping to build your personal brand. I mean, that's amazing. Paula Edgar: Thank you. Thank you. Well, speaking of that, tell me what personal branding means to you. How would you define it? Stefanie Marrone: Okay. Personal branding is different for people. Everybody has an impression of us when they meet us, when they see a picture of us, when they look us up online. To me, in this digital-first world, what personal branding is, is a way to control that, to control the message, to make sure that it's working for you. It's a form of reputation management and it's something that evolves just like you evolve over the years. As you develop in your career or decide you want to do different things, you can make a conscious effort to decide that you want to be known for something that maybe you weren't known for before. That's the beauty of personal branding, particularly, like I said, in this digital age. It's everything about us. It's everything that people see about us. It's what we put out in the world and it's a way for us to control that narrative and using different tools. I'm sure we'll talk about this, but one size doesn't fit all Paula. There are a lot of people who are very into social media like you and me. Then there are a lot of people who it's not their cup of tea, but there are other things you can do to build your brand and you can be just as successful as somebody who, for example, adopted LinkedIn or decided to start a podcast. There is something for everyone. Paula Edgar: Love that. Love that. Speaking of brands and evolution of brands, I wonder how would you describe yourself in three words or short phrases? Stefanie Marrone: Oh, my God. Okay. This is all part of my brand, a little quirky, very passionate, and enthusiastic. I think I would, this is so hard, three words, only three words? So passionate, enthusiastic, and I would say early adopter. I won't expand because you only asked me to do three words but that's why I am where I am because I took a chance on LinkedIn back in the day. Paula Edgar: I love it. Stefanie Marrone: By the way, can I say that in the legal field in which you and I are, it is not easy to build your personal brand and be yourself. I'd love to talk a little bit about that today, just how you can have individuality and be yourself and stand out, but still be in this still buttoned-up world and find your way, find your lane, and stand out. Paula Edgar: Absolutely. I love talking about authenticity and how we bring it to all the spaces that we're in. Absolutely. Tell me this, do you have a favorite quote or mantra? Stefanie Marrone: Yes, a few, they change, but okay, maybe there are two. The New York City Lotto slogan, “You've got to be in it to win it.” Let me tell you why I like this. No, I am not advocating that all of you go out and buy a lottery ticket or go to Mohegan Sun or Vegas and gamble. No, but if you want to, that's fine. Just be responsible. What I am saying is that “you have to be in it to win it” means that you can't sit back at home and have all these great ideas in your head about articles you would write, things you would like to be on a podcast for, a webinar you would like to do, a post you would like to do on LinkedIn, an organization that you would like to be more involved in, an email that you would like to send to potential clients to get business. You can't have all those ideas and don't execute on them and then watch other people do it, people who are just as good as you, if not maybe not even as good as you. Watching your peers and watching your competitors do those things and you know you're really good at what you do and you have a lot to offer to me is doing yourself a huge disservice. You've got to be in it to win it, meaning you've got to try and if you don't try, you will never know. We can sit, Paula, and wait for opportunities to come to our inbox and they may, but if we took control and actually put ourselves out there and realize that we have ownership over this to create that narrative, to go after the things we want, and to also have a thick skin because building a personal brand is also resilience, so can I add that to my list of things that I would use to describe myself? Resilience, because I hear “no” quite often and I don't let that get me down. I instead go to what I would say is my second quote, which is that there's no such thing as rejection. I think of rejection as redirection. When something doesn't work out and I get discouraged, I really try to remind myself, Paula, that I am bigger than this, that it wasn't the right door right now, that there will be another opportunity, that it's okay because I feel better about myself knowing that I put myself out there versus not. I try not to take that rejection personally and I try to just then focus on some of my wins and the things I know that I'm good at. I would say you've got to put yourself out there, but you have to also be resilient and be okay with the fact that you're not going to hear yes. But you'll never know if you don't actually try those things. Paula Edgar: I love that. I love both of those things. I asked you a question again because when you were on the podcast before, I thought maybe the quote has changed. I love the lotto. It's like if you're not there, then you can't win or lose, you're not in the game. I love it. Okay, what about a hype song? I'm guessing it has to be Dave Matthews Band. Stefanie Marrone: Okay, so yeah, so I've spent the last five nights out of the last six nights, which I've told you ad nauseam about how exhausted I am just for the fact that I'm in my late 40s and I'm really tired now and I can't go out I used to and my bedtime has gotten earlier. Okay, so hype song, when I'm working out, I said the same thing last year, it's going to be Eminem, Lose Yourself. But anything Beyonce, especially I'm really into the Cowboy Carter era right now, I think that's amazing. There are so many Beyonce songs that get me pumped up. I would say when you get pumped up to work out, it's the same thing when you're pumping yourself up to show up online or show up in general, you've got to have this feeling of “Yeah, I can go get it.” Those songs really do make a difference. But there is a Dave Matthews song that has a lyric in one of his songs and it says “Eat, drink, and be merry. For tomorrow we'll die.” Okay. What is that? It's not somber. It's just again, go after what you want because you just don't know. Tomorrow's not promised. We can sit and wait for things to happen to us and then we never do it. I'll give you an example. My mom always wanted to go to Italy, Paula, got cancer, got sick, wasn't able to do it. Never wound up going, never wound up seeing Italy. That's a personal example, but what if you never started that side gig, started that business, started that podcast, showed up on LinkedIn, you'll never know. I mean, I'm very consistent in my branding here because it goes back to this whole “You've got to be in it to win it” and you just need to put yourself out there. I would say all of these things really work together and really get at the fact that again, if you don't do it, you'll never know and somebody else will do it. So why not let it be you? Paula Edgar: I love that. I would say that there's a constant reminder that tomorrow is not promised, and there's also the constant promise that tomorrow can be the best thing ever. That there's an energy, and I love this energy around the beginning of the year, which is okay. There's this momentum of “That's gone, here I have this whole 365 days plus that I can do something new in,” and no matter where you are in the year, that's always that case, that always that momentum of what's next. Stefanie Marrone: There's always that thing. I would say to that also, sometimes it's hard to do something we haven't done before. It requires us to step outside of our comfort zone. Maybe being a guest on a podcast, you're nervous about being seen and heard and all those things. You can't stand your voice when you leave a voicemail, which I feel very strongly about. Showing up on video, it's not easy. You want to be a panelist. You were asked to speak on a panel and you were nervous about doing it. But I would again say sometimes these stretch moments are ones that really help us grow. We say, “I don't know that I could do it,” and then we do it and then we say, “Wow, you know what, I can do it,” and that's a hype thing because you have to have your own cheerleader sitting on your shoulder instead of that naysayer voice. You really need that because truly I believe that we can each do whatever we really set our minds to if we believe in ourselves and it may not be perfect and that's okay but every time we do these things, we get better at them. Paula Edgar: I love that. I think that one of the reasons why I wanted to do the podcast is that I wanted folks to know that even when it may look shiny and bright and it seems like people have it all together, that they're hyping themselves. They have to figure themselves out. They have to give themselves such assignments. My therapist says, “Growth begins with comfort ends.” That's when you show up and show out is when you've done something that maybe didn't feel great at first, but you did it. There's a power in that success. Stefanie Marrone: What I love also about your podcast is that it's different people's paths to building their brand. It's not linear. It's not similar, but it works for them. I learned from these stories, which is really helpful. Again, if you need motivation of listening to a podcast like this and reading articles and surrounding yourself with people who've done it can be very motivating and also make it less daunting to do it as well. Paula Edgar: I agree. Tell me, how did you become the Stefanie that has this on their shoulder cheerleader that is pumping herself up, understanding that there may not be wins, that there may be challenges? Where did you grow up? How did you grow up and how did that shape your brand? Stefanie Marrone: By the way, I will say that it looks like I'm confident on social media. It looks like I'm confident posting on my blog. It looks like when I speak at a conference, I'm confident, but I'm not. One of the things I struggle with a lot is the fact that I want people to like me and that I worry what they're thinking about me. But one of the hardest lessons, Paula, I learned is that not everybody will like me. The sound of my voice will make some people cringe. Some people will look at me up and down and be like, “Oh, she's just not my kind of person.” Then other people will be like, “Oh, wow, I get her. She gets me. I love her. I gravitate toward her.” That's something I think everyone should really think about, you will not be liked by everybody. You will not even maybe be liked by a lot of people but that's okay. You will find your tribe, you will find your people. All of this came for me by accident. I mean I would say I always was the kid back in the day who got in trouble first talking too much. I was a really good student, but I was always talkative, chatty, and always questioned things. I always raised my hand. I always was the outgoing small, this is going to sound a little maybe off-topic, but I'm not tall as you know. I'm 5’2. I think that part of my big personality is because I've been small in stature, but I've been wanting my voice to be heard and so that was something I think early on that when you're number one or number two in the class lineup and you realize, “Okay, I'm little, I want to stand out. I'm going to use my voice to do that.” The other thing I learned was that I wanted to help other people. That was something that has always been part of who I am. It's hard because some people will say, “You show up online or you show up with your brand because you like attention. You want to be in the spotlight.” I say, “Okay, maybe, but there's a bigger part of this, which is the idea of helping people.” That's always been who I am, whether it was volunteering when I was younger in college, and then definitely permeated throughout my entire career. LinkedIn was by accident that I found it, used it, was able to build my brand. Now, I'll say, I worked at very buttoned-up white shoe firms where it was frowned upon to build your brand, to have a brand, to even be found, Paula, on LinkedIn, because this was back in the day where they thought that if you were on LinkedIn, somebody could poach you so they wanted to hide you. Then employers realized that actually, okay, number one, it's really good for our employees to be on LinkedIn, because they can be brand ambassadors for us. Number two, we don't have control over their social media, so we should help them cultivate that brand and be supportive of it. It was like, “Okay, touch and go for a while.” By the way, a lot of my posts were terrible and I cringe back. It's like when you're a singer and you make your first audition tapes and you're like, “Whoa, my posts were cringy.” You ever go back to your Facebook post when they-- Paula Edgar: I do, and I was like, "What was I thinking?" Stefanie Marrone: Yeah, I mean, my Facebook posts from 2008 and 2009, let me tell you, sometimes they come up and I'm like, "Delete, delete." But I'll say, I found my voice online and then I realized I had something of value. This all begins and ends with you because even when the audience isn't there, even when the likes aren't there, if you truly believe that you are providing value, being a human, being helpful, and by the way, that's where my brand exploded when I started sharing more personal things, again, this wasn't pulling out all the skeletons in the closet because if I was going to do that, it would take me a really long time and there would be a lot of skeletons in there, it was like being a human, being someone that was relatable, I was able to really stand out from the seat of boring stuff, not only online, Paula, but boring stuff on the internet, in emails, very me-centric content, which most people think that personal branding is about talking about how great they are. I say absolutely not, another quote I would say is “show versus tell.” You don't need to tell people how great you are when you're really great. You need to help people and then be a human. Then by extension, they realize that you're really great at what you do. This is my very long-winded way of saying, it's always been in me to help people. I love to communicate like this, especially during the pandemic, when you and I met where it was so hard to find ways to connect with people. LinkedIn was my lifeline to the universe. That was again, another way, I really started using video for the very first time. I should show you, I will not share with your audience, but I should show you my earliest video. My very first video was day four of the lockdown, Paula, in March of, what was it, 2020? Only four years ago, made my first video. It was cringy, I posted it, did well. Then I kept getting better as I kept getting more confident, better at it, and I found my voice, I found my lane. You don't hear me talking about iguanas or finance, personal finance. I know what I know, and I'm going to stick to that. That would be another tip I would tell everyone listening, stick to what you know, the stuff you're passionate about, because when you like what you're talking about, you know your stuff, you're going to do it better than you could otherwise. Paula Edgar: I agree with that 100%, even as you're still learning the things that you have an innate connection to that you're interested in that you want to grow in, those are the things that you should focus on because, I use the word magic all the time when I talk about personal brand, it infuses everything you do and it shows up even when you may not think it does, it permeates to all the things. Stefanie Marrone: Yeah. Can we talk about you for a minute? Paula Edgar: Sure. Stefanie Marrone: Okay, so for those who don't know, we met right before the pandemic at a New York City Bar Association conference where we both were speakers. I think I spoke first and then I stayed and I watched you speak and I will say that power, that passion, that electricity was so apparent from you on a stage and I was blown away by not only what you were saying but how you said it. You had this impact, I think, that I was just like, “Wow.” It's like going to a concert and not ever seeing a band before that you didn't know and you're like, “Whoa,” and that's, by the way, how I got in Dave Matthews back in 1999. I would say you have the same effect on me as Dave Matthews, you know I was going to work that in. You love it. Just like I love showing up online, I feel the same way when I'm speaking in person, but don't you personally feel that way when you're on a stage? Paula Edgar: I do, I do. I think that that's why I say to meet you at the city bar is because there's not a lot of folks who live in their authentic space. I think that sometimes, you can feel when people are putting on ears to be in the space that they're in. One thing I love about the New York City Bar, shout out because I'm on the board there, is that the entire time when I was a law student all the way through now, I felt like it was home. Weirdly so because again, it shouldn't have been felt like that but it's like felt that and so there's a comfort level but there's also the power of connection and what it does as an institution for people. So seeing somebody else there doing the same thing for the same people for me was like, “Oh, good there's somebody else, somebody else I can connect with,” which they often see who's excited and who wants to help. I think that that's another place where we find the connection. It's like yes, I could talk all day about “Here's all the fine things that I did,” etc., but I'm doing it to talk about, “Hey, you should also do it. Also, here's what I learned when I did this thing, or maybe you should do this thing next.” If it helps somebody, then-- Stefanie Marrone: It's even icing on the cake. The things I want to say from this. Number one, Paula and I, first of all, we're both extroverted extroverts. We're both big personalities. We get along great. This is something I want to say, be a hype woman for another woman. There's space for all of us. We overlap in some areas, but I never ever felt like you were someone that I wouldn't want to collaborate with. We collaborate all the time. You'll find collaborators everywhere, even competitors and all those things. I would just say we are so much stronger when we help each other, when we realize our strengths. We have partnered on webinars, in-person stuff, articles, this kind of stuff. You never know. Then personal branding, two things. I stayed after. Then I made sure I was fangirling you, but I connected with you. We met and then we connected on LinkedIn. We met up eventually. I would say you're going to events, you're building your brand, you're shaking someone's hand, you're meeting them, go up to the speakers afterward. Then third, I'd like to say with the New York City Bar, it's a great example, Paula, of somebody who if you want to get involved in a leadership position in an organization like that, professional trade association organization, such a great way to build your brand. If you're not an online person, and last time I was on the podcast, we spoke a lot about LinkedIn, I want to make it very clear that building your brand doesn't mean that you have to be on social. Absolutely not. You take a leadership role in an organization like a New York City Bar Association, like whatever it is in your area. You become then known as an expert. You're meeting people. You gotta do a good job though, because one of the worst things you can do is get involved in these organizations and then not respond to emails, not do the things that you were asked to do. You're putting yourself on the line here, but I would say it's a great way, especially if you're a little bit more of an introvert or you like more in-person stuff, to get involved with an organization like that, and you never know, volunteer to help out with the name tag table, volunteer to plan the programs. You're going to meet some amazing people by doing this and they will open tons of doors for you. Paula Edgar: There are the three Vs that I like to talk about when it comes to this. It is volunteer for visibility. That connects you to all kinds of opportunities. Where's my other V? It's volunteer. Oh, my gosh, where's my V? Of course. Stefanie Marrone: Visibility. Paula Edgar: Volunteer, visibility, but there's another V that I like. Stefanie Marrone: Is it venison? Paula Edgar: No, it's not. Stefanie Marrone: Wait, come back to it. Paula Edgar: It's okay, I'll remember it. I'll remember later, it's all good. Whatever it is, there's some Vs there. Stefanie Marrone: Brain fog, I got it, right now. Paula Edgar: It's all good. I was just talking about this last week, but anyway, so when it comes to that, this podcast is around the beginning of the year. What are some of the actionable steps? Give me three that you think the professionals can take in January to set a strong foundation for their personal brand. Stefanie Marrone: Okay, I'm going to give you a bonus one, which is to go to your personal branding masterclass. Are you doing it again? Which I hope-- Paula Edgar: I do my annual Intention and Goal-setting Session every January. Stefanie Marrone: Okay, so listen, I wouldn't be a hype girl and wouldn't be a true believer in what I'm saying if I didn't hype you up too. Okay, so in addition to doing that, I want you guys to think about a few things. The start of a new year is a blank slate. Now, this does not mean that January one is when you need to say, “Okay, I'm going to be somebody different or I'm going to do something different.” Remember that these are goals and things you can do all throughout the year. You can start and stop them and life gets in the way one million percent. That's why you see everybody and their mother at the gym January 3rd and then by March 3rd, you're like, “Okay, there's one person I recognize.” That's fine, don't beat yourself up over it. What is so important is to have just a few things. Do not make a laundry list of things you want to do. It's not going to be “write a book, get a Wikipedia, speak at seven conferences, organize my own conference, put on 17 webinars, write a second book, do a podcast, do seven videos.” No, okay, what you should do is think about what you want to be known for. What are the communication channels that you're really good at when it comes to communicating that? Pick, there are several. Video, online, in-person, volunteerism. I would say there's a few others where you could figure out things that make sense, even in your own personal life, are you getting involved with your kids? Are you involved in some community organizations? There are a lot of things you can be doing. Are you going to maybe at the very least make sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date and really reflects who you are, what you do, and for whom you do it. Maybe you're going to write one article per quarter. If you don't have a vehicle to publish that article, you're going to publish it on LinkedIn. Maybe you're going to read a blog, like The Social Media Butterfly blog, to learn a little bit more about how to do these things and break it up. Maybe you're going to take a course. You're going to do something for you. You do not have to spend countless hours doing this, particularly when you're busy at home and you're busy at work. But you do need to make sure that you are putting out what you want in the universe to be put out. Again, it's reputation management. I also want everybody at the start of the year to Google themselves. I want you to look at your Google search results on the first and second page. I want you to make sure that all your social media channels really are cleaned up, really reflect who you are, all those things. Go through your blogs, go through old posts, are they cringy? Delete things, that sort of thing. Then I want you to think about picking three conferences. Three conferences over the course of the year that you would like to attend and/or speak at. The thing I really want you to do is to get in touch with someone who you know who either spoke at that conference or is a conference organizer, and ask how you could become a speaker. Sometimes they'll be like the online form. Okay, you know what? Submit, but sometimes those go into what I call the vortex of nowhere. So find someone. Maybe if you're a lawyer, it's a PLI program. Maybe it's an ABA program. Maybe it's a New York City Bar program. Find someone you know, ask them how to get involved, how to speak, put forward. Again, you'll never know if you don't try. Then you can also do your own thing. When in doubt, when I don't get picked for conferences, which by the way, Paula, happens quite a bit, I put myself forward to speak at the industry conference in my industry. That sounds like something that, yeah, that didn't really make sense, but you get what I'm trying to say. It sounds like something Austin Powers would say. I will sometimes do my own webinar then if I don't get selected. Again, in this creator economy, we have control, much more control than we ever had before. Paula Edgar: That's something that I've been thinking about a lot is I don't often pitch out things for conferences, but when I have and if I haven't gotten them, it's like what happens to that content? It's something that I thought about. Of course, you could leverage it in the article or pitch it to another conference, et cetera. So that makes a lot of sense. I remember my other V, which you triggered for me, which is it's vision and volunteer for visibility. Stefanie Marrone: I love that. Those are great. All of this makes such a difference. Remember, okay, so here's another tip, I would say repurposing is one of the most important things that we can all do. When it comes to repurposing, we all have a groundswell of content. Content, by the way, from something you submitted, like a topic for a conference, something you were a panelist for, the slides for something, something you prepared internally, externally, an article you wrote five years ago, a LinkedIn post from three years ago. By the way, everyone at the beginning of the year should download their LinkedIn post archive, which you can do on your desktop in the privacy and settings section. Just download the entire archive. It comes in a zip folder. It takes about 24 to 48 hours. That gives you all of the posts that you've ever made. You go through that, you use AI tools, which I use a lot, like ChatGPT and a few others. You can have it help you create additional content. There is no need, Paula, to reinvent the wheel every day. Nobody remembers what they ate for breakfast, let alone what you or I posted on social two months ago. Again the other thing with repurposing is it's reinforcing the messages. It's again, making us stronger at the things for which we want to be known. Paula Edgar: I love that. I remember when we first had a conversation on this many years ago, I was like, “Are you sure?” Because if I said this this week, if I say it again next month, then four people will see it again. You were like, “Okay, those people see it again, it'll be consistent.” Then the 18 people who didn't see it before will have now seen it. The more that I see you doing it, others doing it, I'm like, “Oh, it's so true because I don't feel annoyed when I see it again.” I'm like, “Oh, that's fine. I need to remember that thing.” Stefanie Marrone: Change up something, change the image, change the text a little bit, or do something a little different. A lot of people do what I call one-and-done. I'll say organizations do this, too. They take the time to post, create great content, and speak at a conference. If you're speaking on a topic, you should be speaking on that topic again. Think that just because you spoke on it before, another organization wouldn't be interested in hearing you do it. Maybe you change up the other panelists on it. But there's a lot and also every time you speak, you have a PowerPoint for the most part, or notes. Why don't you turn that into an article, a LinkedIn post, actually several LinkedIn posts, maybe a video clip, maybe a podcast topic? This just requires planning and I think a lot of us are like, “Okay, we did it. Great. Gold star. Let's move on to the next thing.” Paula Edgar: Finished. Stefanie Marrone: Yeah, exactly. But there's a lot more that you can do. It's like, I see the fashion example, you buy a new blazer or a new shirt, and you're not going to wear it just once, you're going to remix it. You're going to wear it with jeans, with a skirt, whatever it is. It would be a total waste of money if you just left it in your closet and did nothing with it again. I would say the same goes for our personal branding. You're not just going to create something and never use it again. A lot of people do that. Again, you're not going to remember that I wore this blazer the last time you saw me. If you do, maybe you need to think about your own blazers and other things. You take the time to do it and use it again. Paula Edgar: You said a lot of things that I think folks who are listening would be like, “Okay, that's the Paula and Stefanie thing. That's very visible.” But let's pull out some of the things that you just talked about that can be used internally. One of the things I love to tell people to do to build their brand internally is when they go to a conference, even just attending, is to write a post-attendance memo to stakeholders. To say, “I went to X conference. I saw X speakers. Here are three takeaways that I have from the conference.” I'd love to go again next year and hopefully, they'll be able to speak.” Or, “Thanks so much for investing in me and my professional development by sending me to go. These are the things I learned from it.” That's another branding that is not external but it's internal and shows people [inaudible]. Stefanie Marrone: I love that. You just made me think of something that's really important. Let's talk about the power and importance of internal branding. It is very important to give you work in a big organization or a big law firm to make sure that you're not just one of many in your class or that you're not just getting credit for doing the work. A lot of us just sit at our desks all day turning out amazing work and that's great. But guess what? You also need to be visible internally so that you can get opportunities and that you can also find champions and people who will advocate for you. You don't want to overly toot your own horn because you don't want to sound really self-promotional but you do want to make sure that you're raising your hand for things, making sure that people know your contributions while also making sure that they know the contributions of other people on the team. Because again, you never want to take that spotlight and it's always great to be more of that person who's hyping up other people. Everything we're saying dovetails to this, it really all makes sense when you put it all together. But make sure internally, you're getting involved in things, and that you're thanking the right people, like you said, for sending you to a conference. What can you do with that material? Can you do an internal lunch and learn with your colleagues? You share the things that you learned. Can you share some of the videos? Maybe some key takeaways. But there's a lot to be said for internal branding, especially if you are somebody who is early in their career or somebody who is not necessarily someone who wants to be in that spotlight. You need to make sure that you're not just chugging out work, sitting at your desk all day. Paula Edgar: It’s true. Stefanie Marrone: Also, in a hybrid environment and for people who work from home, it's harder to build your brand internally when you're not actually having a conversation, running to the next office to do that. I would also say it's very important that if you can have FaceTime with your colleagues and people who are in higher-level positions in your organization, do it. Paula Edgar: Ask for it. Stefanie Marrone: Ask for it. Do it. Go to the event. They ask you to come in once a month. There's a holiday party. This is a holiday party, seize it. This should be a time when you're thinking about being visible. Paula Edgar: Absolutely. Another one of my clients talked about something that she did, which I thought was amazing. In addition to listening to my example about doing a post-event recap and sending a memo, she also got the resources from the app and attached them to the messages. I was like, “That is so smart because again, making sure you have a download and keep them.” You're sharing with folks who didn't get to go some of the things and who knows, I've looked at it but you never know. She also then talked about using that as an example in her self evaluation. All of that is things that you can do internally and then also think about how you show up at meetings. I'm a big fan of thinking about who's going to be at this meeting, what is this meeting about, what is my question or what the value add that I have, why they want me at this meeting, and thinking ahead of time about something you've read, something you know, questions you have so that you can show up and show your value add. Branding is not just about what you put online and not just what you wear, but it's all of the above and you can absolutely brand yourself as a thought leader and somebody who is a go to in whatever topic by just showing up and showing up well. Stefanie Marrone: I agree with that 100%. I told you about a situation recently. I am not vanilla. I would say there's color to me. I am a big personality. I'm a little quirky. The people listening to the podcast can't see, but I've got a bunch of holiday decorations behind me. I am definitely somebody who is, but I'm not for everybody. But that shouldn't detract or distract or take away from the substance I provide. I worry sometimes about being a big personality and not feeling like I'm just fitting in with everybody else or being like everybody else which can actually be to my detriment. That's something that I'm working on, how do people perceive me? Are they looking at the extraneous things about me that don't have to do with the substance I bring and with the subject matter knowledge I have? Where's my place? How do I keep my individuality while wanting to also be professional and have that stature in that meeting? What does that mean? My mentor said to me I've got my personal persona and then I have my professional persona. I think that a lot of people fall into that category. I have not been that great about separating the two. The Stefanie you get at work is the same Stefanie you get on the weekend and other people are better. My friend said she has a mask and she sheds that mask. I'm not saying that this is a good or bad thing, but it's something to be thinking about, particularly if you work in an industry that is a little more buttoned up. How do you maintain those levels of individuality while wanting to fit in but also stand out and then be taken seriously? Paula Edgar: Yeah, I do think that it's a constant interrogation, but the answer that I have chosen for myself and that I find that a lot of people who have found success is that if you think of authenticity as a scale from one to 10, one is when you don't know anybody and you feel really uncomfortable. I probably am in every situation at six. If I feel more comfortable with you, then I get to a 10, but I'm never a three or four. You're going to get me with red lips, full nails, talking like I'm from Brooklyn because that's where I'm from, and giving you straight talk for straight understanding because that's who I am. The pivoting back and forth for me, really for me, was too heavy. It was too much to think about. But to your point, a lot of people have that question. I would say it's probably the question I get asked the most, particularly when I'm talking to clients at law firms. They're like, “Well, this place, the uniform, this white shirt [inaudible] But I like to wear this.” The thing is that all cultures shift with the people in them may not shift fast. People may look at you sideways and be like, “Oh, they're different.” But the question is, is the difference a detriment, or is the difference additive? I believe that anytime we come in with our space and our magic, we are adding, but you cannot add and be different and not also live up to the standard of work product and excellence that they-- Stefanie Marrone: They can be a given. It can't ever be a question of your work. I think what you said about reading the room, and now I'm thinking about that pendulum, so you're a three, four. I can't go from 1 to 10. You are going to get me, I'm more like you, but I think reading the room and figuring out-- A great example would be I'm a big dog person. You will see my dogs often. Some people are not, it's not for them. They think it's not as professional to have dogs, cats, kids, or whatever in the background, that's just not them. There are also people who will show up wearing a more casual shirt on a Zoom and other people who even at home feel still to this day that they want to put on a jacket and a suit. I would say it's really important to just read the room like you said and adjust your behavior where you can, but also if you feel like you do not belong in a certain spot, it may be a good idea to find those people in places and things that do make sense. But one of the things you want to make sure of is your individuality and who you are, what you're bringing to the table, and I think this is very important for younger generations, generation Z and the millennials, they’re much more, not confident I woud say, but they are who they are and they're not making excuses for that. I think there's going to be a little bit, we have work to do, I think on that mind shift because some corporate cultures haven't caught up, and some corporate cultures, Paula, haven't caught up to the idea that it's okay to have a personal brand and also do your work. Some companies are still not okay with people speaking and writing and showing up online. I hope that that continues to go in the direction of the employers thinking that someone with a personal brand is a benefit to them and a good thing versus not supporting them. Paula Edgar: Well, I think that's going to be the case, even if it's not what they want, what they'll find is there'll be more attrition. I think all generations of people who are financing the power of having a bigger and stronger brand externally and internally realize that if the place that they are aligned with does not align with that, it goes someplace else. The thing is, I remember somebody at an event asked me, “I don't want to post because then they'll see me and think that at the time I was posting, that I should have been working.” I’m like, “First of all, there are such things as you can set something to post later on.” They have no idea when you've done the thing. Stefanie Marrone: They have no idea. Or you wrote the post over the new schedule. They have no idea nor is it any really honestly any of their business. Paula Edgar: Exactly. The other challenge that I have is when folks don't think of their brand as their own, that they have to only-- Stefanie Marrone: Post about their companies. Paula Edgar: Right, exactly, or have their company own-- There are definitely some places that have social media policies that talk about certain things you can or can't do, but within that, there's still freedom. I'm a big proponent of not letting somebody else do your stuff unless your person, your admin, or somebody who's doing work on your behalf. You can always tell when it's not you. If I know the person, I'm like, "Oh, that wasn't them." Similarly, you mentioned ChatGPT and using AI. One of the things that I am frustrated by, and I'm like, “You're probably the only person I could talk to about this and then get it,” is when you know that the person just copied and pasted it. Stefanie Marrone: Yeah, a game changer. There are so many telltale signs. Paula Edgar: Oh, the words, the words, and again, there are some words that people just use, but if you never use like, “I'm keen,” anytime ChatGPT writes keen, I'm like, “Keen? No, who says that?” I said it to a friend there, and they're like, “I use keen as well.” I was like, “I've never seen you use the word keen on mine.” Just make sure, and I guess I'm saying this is that you can use, and I think you should use all the tools, and right now every platform has some kind of AI supplement, but the tools you use should be a jumpstart as opposed to a replacement. Stefanie Marrone: Oh, 100%. Here's my tip on using these tools. You should never, ever take what any of these AI tools give you as the Bible, the Holy Grail, the final product. Absolutely not. It should be a basis. Also, I will say the input is so important that will affect the output. Garbage in, garbage out. If you tell it to write a post or summarize my experience doing blah, blah, blah, and you don't give it a lot of instructions, you're going to get a very generic post. You're going to get something like, “In a digital-first world,” and if you see the word “game changer” you know that it was likely written by AI. What I would suggest is you give it the information. Sometimes I even just talk into it. I will give it notes. I will say, “Put this in a human tone that is relatable. Do not use AI phrases. Go through it and make sure that it does not sound like AI. Make it in my voice.” The more you use it, the more it knows your voice. Give it examples. Then you will get a better output. But review everything that it gives you. Then I find also the beginning and the end always sound formulaic from what it gives me. So I make sure that those are things that I have personally vetted and that I have written myself. You can tell a mile away what is AI-generated, completely AI-generated. You should never be creating content for your personal brand that is from scratch. You would never say, “Create an article about how to build your personal brand when you're busy as a professional.” Absolutely not. You're going to give it information, cover these topics, do this, use my past article as an example, copy and paste a transcript from a podcast or from a video that you did, give it context, and give it examples. Another thing I sometimes will do is look at my competitor's or a peer's post and know my voice and what I talk about and other things I've written, create a post that is better, different, but on the same themes. That's something you can do. I think that's helpful, but these tools are highly effective. Again, for presentations, for outlines, but they should not be the final product. Humans are the best at all of these things. We will never get replaced by this, but remember the personal and personal branding if you are going to use some of these tools. I'm all for tools, Paula, for productivity, to streamline things, to synthesize information, but I am not for them replacing us because we are humans, not robots. Paula Edgar: They really can't. Stefanie Marrone: They don't know your experience. That's another thing, if you see posts that just sound so, in order to get ahead in the busy world, in your personal brand, you should do this, this, and this. It's devoid of any personality. You need to have a personality. Having a personality and having a voice doesn't mean, again, pulling those skeletons out of your closet and revealing too many things, it just means being human. This is why also video can be highly compelling for people. Another thing I would say is if you can get somebody, a friend, when you're speaking at a conference, to record you a short little video clip, that's a great thing you can use. Then if you are doing a Zoom, you should record it. Then you can use a tool like Otter, which is an AI transcription tool, you put the entire transcript into Otter, and then it will give you the transcript in a written form. Then what I like to do with that is take that, Paula, and put it into a ChatGPT and say, “Turn this into show notes, several blog posts, social media posts,” and it gives me the foundation to work with. Sometimes it’s easier just to have something instead of a blank piece of paper. Paula Edgar: Agreed, agreed. Tell me this, what do you think, or what advice do you have for creating a strategy? Somebody has a career bubble, you talked about some of the things that you can do, but one of the reasons why I love doing the Intention and Goal-setting Session at the beginning of the year is because I want people to collectively say, “This is what I'm going to do. This is how I'm going to impact.” You talked all the time, especially to me about having content, having content pillars, what you think if someone has a goal and a vision, how you create content, and a strategy around that. Stefanie Marrone: Okay, so creating a content strategy from scratch is daunting. It's like, “Well, where do we start? What do we do?” This is why I've always suggested these few things. I would say pulling all of your LinkedIn posts, and downloading them is very helpful to see the things that you have talked about and also to get metrics on what has done well. The exercise about figuring out your content pillars really dovetails nicely with figuring out your personal brand. Essentially what you're doing is figuring out the three to five areas in your wheelhouse that support your brand and business for which you want to be known. You're not worrying about the tactics in terms of how to communicate that. You're not worrying about, “Am I sending this out via email? Am I doing a webinar? Is it a video? Is it a podcast? Is it social media posts?” Not yet. What you're thinking about right now are the three to five areas. For example, for me, it would be LinkedIn, it would be personal branding. It would be a marketing strategy. Maybe I would pepper in something about women's empowerment and entrepreneurs. It may change. Again, as you change, this will change. Then I know my areas. I'm not going to deviate for the most part from those. You know that you're going to see content from me in those areas. Again, this is how you become known in areas. Then you're going to think about, “Well, how do I spread that message? How do I get that message out? What am I good at? What also am I good at that is going to put me front and center with the people who can hire and refer work to me?” Okay, so do I like doing it and will it have an impact? Then you should think about these two things, owned media versus earned media. Earned media is me appearing on your podcast. You asked me. Me getting quoted in Law360, and The New York Times, me being asked to speak at an ABA panel. Owned media can also be used from the earned media so I could write an article, like we said, or key takeaways from that experience. Owned media is when I decide that I'm going to write an article or create a post and I do it on my time when I want, how I want it and I don't worry about getting it published somewhere else. Now, a lot of people still believe that third-party validation from an organization, a publication, whatever it is, will give them gravitas. I think that could be the case with some things, but I also want to make sure that people know that you don't need to wait to get selected and chosen by another organization. I think in this creator economy, some of that credibility has gone by the wayside and there's a little bit of an antiquated way of thinking. For some things, it can be helpful. For other things, you don't have to wait six weeks, or six months for someone to take your article, publish it, and maybe even truncate it. You can publish it as you want, when you want, and send it to your email list, which is another thing everybody should have is an email list because you don't own your LinkedIn contacts, you don't own the content that's on LinkedIn, which is why I say rain for a rainy day, download all that stuff. You own your email address. You own your email contacts, it's so important. I would say worry less about the vehicle by which you're going to communicate it and then figure out what you want to communicate. Then you can try out different things and then you can repurpose those things. But I think this is a pretty foolproof way to do this. If five seems daunting, do three. Then set a goal quarterly, that you're going to do two to three things, one thing a month. If you're going to make an investment in LinkedIn, you need to show up more than once a month. You need to be on LinkedIn regularly and you need to build a presence there. But all of this can be accomplished and you're going to then track how you've done, what's worked, what hasn't because you don't want to create content in a bubble, nor do you want to throw spaghetti at the wall because guess what happens when you throw spaghetti at the wall? Never anything good. Paula Edgar: I love this as a strategy because it can work for entrepreneurs, people who have a business framework within an organization like the law firm partners, and people who are looking for a new role or new opportunities, all of that can work within that same framework, it's what you want to be visible for and how you make that happen. Stefanie Marrone: If you do that, we can change it any day. You decide. You want to be an entrepreneur. You know what, you could then start writing about different topics. What do you want this side business to be? You have a choice and you have control. I think a lot of us forget that. We're like, “Okay, well, I do this job at this big organization so I can never move into X-role.” No, absolutely not. You just need to figure out how to position your experience and position yourself and figure out where you want to grow and go. Paula Edgar: I love that. Okay. Is there anything, one new habit, that you think professionals should adopt this year to elevate their brand consistently? Stefanie Marrone: I think stepping outside of your comfort zone a little bit would be something I would recommend for everybody. This is something you can do in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s. I'm working with a client who is in his late 60s, who's never used LinkedIn and wants to use it, not for himself as much as to help his firm and the people who are next generation coming up as he thinks about retirement. Think about one thing you can do that will be something that may be a little bit inconvenient, but will be good in the long run. I would also say make an effort to build relationships because as you and I both say, your network is your net worth. Relationships are part of personal branding. You will only be as successful in business and in anything in your life as the quality of your success is going to be directly correlated to the quality of your relationships. The better our relationships personally and professionally, the better our opportunities will be. That's just how life is. Again, showing up, being a human, all of those things helping other people, it really does make a difference. It makes people like us more. It makes people want to work with us more. This is again why there are a lot of people who do what you and I do and you want to stand out and how do you stand out? Well, it's not just providing content and value. It's also about helping people. It's about remembering their birthdays. It's about lending a hand when they need one, sending them an article. It's all of those things, those all filter and factor into your personal brand. Paula Edgar: I love it. That is a perfect way for us to end our conversation. Stephanie, tell everybody how they can stay in touch with you and find out more about you, your work, and the things that you do for others. Stefanie Marrone: You can find my blog, the socialmediabutterflyblog.com, and that has lots of social media, personal branding, marketing advice. You can find me on LinkedIn, just type in my name, follow me, click the bell on my profile to receive an update when I post something and you can follow me also on Threads, I am there and also Instagram. Paula Edgar: Awesome. Everybody, tell a friend that they need to hear this episode to get themselves together for the new year and anytime they listen to this, no matter what time of year it is, these are all actionable strategies in order to build their brand and to connect with people better. Stefanie, my friend, I'm glad that we are in relationship with each other so that I can tell everybody how fantastic you are. They can do all the things that you said to kill it in their personal brands. Bye everybody. Stefanie Marrone: Thank you.